928 engine in a 944?
11-06-2011, 01:03 PM
#61
Rainman
Rennlist Member
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Someone measure the narrowest point in a 944 chasis engine bay and write down the exact position and width. Repeat for length/height. Then measure the 928 engines at their widest/longest/tallest point and write down the exact positions on the engine for reference. Post the data here so we can discuss facts. I did this once but didn't write it down. It's a very close fit and my conclusion was that you could make some cuts into the strut towers and rebrace them and the engine wold fit. Also if you shave/cut the cam heads on the engine it might help the fit. I didn't get as far as thinking about all the other parts that make the 928 wider like exhaust, pumps, pullies, etc.
I think it can be done without going to a space frame chasis if you are creative. What is the exact weight difference between a 944/928/lsx?
I think it can be done without going to a space frame chasis if you are creative. What is the exact weight difference between a 944/928/lsx?
a 944 motor dressed is right around 400lb. an LSX is around 420lb. a 928 is wayyyy past 500lb, even in Al.
this says an S4 motor (928 32v) is 264kg which is 582lb dry. the 16v weight shouldnt be too far off that.
http://members.rennlist.com/pirtle/s4specs.htm
Last edited by V2Rocket; 11-06-2011 at 01:33 PM.
11-06-2011, 04:54 PM
#62
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then youd still end up with a cut-up car with no working room and an engine that gained it >100lbs in weight for 80 more hp.
a 944 motor dressed is right around 400lb. an LSX is around 420lb. a 928 is wayyyy past 500lb, even in Al.
this says an S4 motor (928 32v) is 264kg which is 582lb dry. the 16v weight shouldnt be too far off that.
http://members.rennlist.com/pirtle/s4specs.htm
a 944 motor dressed is right around 400lb. an LSX is around 420lb. a 928 is wayyyy past 500lb, even in Al.
this says an S4 motor (928 32v) is 264kg which is 582lb dry. the 16v weight shouldnt be too far off that.
http://members.rennlist.com/pirtle/s4specs.htm
11-06-2011, 08:14 PM
#64
Nordschleife Master
1. More power potential.
2. More modern tuneability.
3. More reliability.
4. Good fuel economy.
While the LS is a great engine and meets most of my demands, it's still an OHV design that derives most of it power from capacity, and that to me doesn't fit with the Porsche brand - and I'm no purist!
I've posted this before but if I was looking at a 944 engine swap to a more modern and reliable engine say in 3-5 years time I'd be looking at something like the new 3 series engine.
It's a slant four same as the 944 and looks like it would fit. It's an all aluminum modern 16v DOHC engine that will be a well supported for years. It makes 240hp 260lb-ft stock and the BMW aftermarket will soon have off-the-shelf parts that will make a reliable 300+ hp. It is economical, light and fuel efficient. It has in stock form: variable intake and exhaust valve timing, sequential turbochargers, and direct fuel injection. Peak torque is achieved at 1250 rpm and doesn't drop off until 4800 rpm.
I'll be keeping my fofo's for some time and that's something I would like to see in my cars.
11-06-2011, 08:20 PM
#65
I must say I'm intrigued by the LS swap and having driven one was impressed with the power. The 928 engine was also good in it's era, but if I was doing a swap it would be for four reasons:
1. More power potential.
2. More modern tuneability.
3. More reliability.
4. Good fuel economy.
While the LS is a great engine and meets most of my demands, it's still an OHV design that derives most of it power from capacity, and that to me doesn't fit with the Porsche brand - and I'm no purist!
I've posted this before but if I was looking at a 944 engine swap to a more modern and reliable engine say in 3-5 years time I'd be looking at something like the new 3 series engine.
It's a slant four same as the 944 and looks like it would fit. It's an all aluminum modern 16v DOHC engine that will be a well supported for years. It makes 240hp 260lb-ft stock and the BMW aftermarket will soon have off-the-shelf parts that will make a reliable 300+ hp. It is economical, light and fuel efficient. It has in stock form: variable intake and exhaust valve timing, sequential turbochargers, and direct fuel injection. Peak torque is achieved at 1250 rpm and doesn't drop off until 4800 rpm.
I'll be keeping my fofo's for some time and that's something I would like to see in my cars.
1. More power potential.
2. More modern tuneability.
3. More reliability.
4. Good fuel economy.
While the LS is a great engine and meets most of my demands, it's still an OHV design that derives most of it power from capacity, and that to me doesn't fit with the Porsche brand - and I'm no purist!
I've posted this before but if I was looking at a 944 engine swap to a more modern and reliable engine say in 3-5 years time I'd be looking at something like the new 3 series engine.
It's a slant four same as the 944 and looks like it would fit. It's an all aluminum modern 16v DOHC engine that will be a well supported for years. It makes 240hp 260lb-ft stock and the BMW aftermarket will soon have off-the-shelf parts that will make a reliable 300+ hp. It is economical, light and fuel efficient. It has in stock form: variable intake and exhaust valve timing, sequential turbochargers, and direct fuel injection. Peak torque is achieved at 1250 rpm and doesn't drop off until 4800 rpm.
I'll be keeping my fofo's for some time and that's something I would like to see in my cars.
11-06-2011, 09:02 PM
#67
Rennlist Member
I'm completely with MAGK944 on the whole LS motors being a very un-Porsche motor.
Which is why this is my favorite swap I've seen in a 944: http://www.eurotuner.com/featuredveh...4/viewall.html
Which is why this is my favorite swap I've seen in a 944: http://www.eurotuner.com/featuredveh...4/viewall.html
11-06-2011, 09:03 PM
#68
Nordschleife Master
11-06-2011, 09:18 PM
#69
Nordschleife Master
I'm completely with MAGK944 on the whole LS motors being a very un-Porsche motor.
Which is why this is my favorite swap I've seen in a 944: http://www.eurotuner.com/featuredveh...4/viewall.html
Which is why this is my favorite swap I've seen in a 944: http://www.eurotuner.com/featuredveh...4/viewall.html
11-06-2011, 09:27 PM
#70
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968 3L will do near this
I must say I'm intrigued by the LS swap and having driven one was impressed with the power. The 928 engine was also good in it's era, but if I was doing a swap it would be for four reasons:
1. More power potential.
2. More modern tuneability.
3. More reliability.
4. Good fuel economy.
While the LS is a great engine and meets most of my demands, it's still an OHV design that derives most of it power from capacity, and that to me doesn't fit with the Porsche brand - and I'm no purist!
I've posted this before but if I was looking at a 944 engine swap to a more modern and reliable engine say in 3-5 years time I'd be looking at something like the new 3 series engine.
It's a slant four same as the 944 and looks like it would fit. It's an all aluminum modern 16v DOHC engine that will be a well supported for years. It makes 240hp 260lb-ft stock and the BMW aftermarket will soon have off-the-shelf parts that will make a reliable 300+ hp. It is economical, light and fuel efficient. It has in stock form: variable intake and exhaust valve timing, sequential turbochargers, and direct fuel injection. Peak torque is achieved at 1250 rpm and doesn't drop off until 4800 rpm.
I'll be keeping my fofo's for some time and that's something I would like to see in my cars.
1. More power potential.
2. More modern tuneability.
3. More reliability.
4. Good fuel economy.
While the LS is a great engine and meets most of my demands, it's still an OHV design that derives most of it power from capacity, and that to me doesn't fit with the Porsche brand - and I'm no purist!
I've posted this before but if I was looking at a 944 engine swap to a more modern and reliable engine say in 3-5 years time I'd be looking at something like the new 3 series engine.
It's a slant four same as the 944 and looks like it would fit. It's an all aluminum modern 16v DOHC engine that will be a well supported for years. It makes 240hp 260lb-ft stock and the BMW aftermarket will soon have off-the-shelf parts that will make a reliable 300+ hp. It is economical, light and fuel efficient. It has in stock form: variable intake and exhaust valve timing, sequential turbochargers, and direct fuel injection. Peak torque is achieved at 1250 rpm and doesn't drop off until 4800 rpm.
I'll be keeping my fofo's for some time and that's something I would like to see in my cars.
11-06-2011, 10:03 PM
#72
Nordschleife Master
Yes the 3.0L 968 produces a little less hp/torque at a higher peak rpm than this 2.0L but thats about it. Try getting 20% more reliable power out of the 968 without spending a fortune. Getting 30-40% more reliable power out of this engine would be relatively easy. The variable timing, engine management, fuel system is antiquated in comparison.
1. More power potential - Fail
2. More modern tuneability - Fail
3. More reliability - Fail
4. Good fuel economy
1. More power potential - Fail
2. More modern tuneability - Fail
3. More reliability - Fail
4. Good fuel economy
11-06-2011, 10:08 PM
#73
Flat 6s are WAY to wide to fit into a 944, if you think a 928 engine was impractical think again. Ive tried asking about Cayman engines and they are too wide, so a bigger version will not fit at all, unless you space frame your car, then maybe..
If your talking about a 930 engine or something like that, that will be a closer bet, but still unlikely
If your talking about a 930 engine or something like that, that will be a closer bet, but still unlikely
11-06-2011, 10:13 PM
#74
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I migth get slap on the hands for suggesting this ,but lol we started with a 928/944 motor swap & now we are in the BMW 3 series.First question how much such a motor will be cost affective & did anybody out there has done such a swap yet.There is a motor out there which meet almost all the requirement for an in 944 swap.It's a 3.0 lrt 16V -vario cam slant four,it also has 240 hp which peaks at 225 lb/ft at 4,100 rpm.It has abundance of torque at all engine speed,also has a torque plot very nearly flat from 1000rpm to 6,500rpm.As low as 1000rpm it's producing 147lb/ft and at 2000rpm it's already pumping 191lb/ft. Best off all this motor was desing & built by Porsche (for the purist) & has proven itself to be very reliable if maintain the way it should.So why reinvent the wheel,it has been swap in engine bay from 924S to S2 without any problems.Not suggesting this swap because I own a 968 but I do firmly beleive they are a heck of a good motor and a natural for 944s.
Last edited by ernie9468; 02-04-2013 at 04:19 PM.
11-06-2011, 10:21 PM
#75
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
problem with the BMW I-6 is it is LONG. ive measured, assuming the bellhousings are similar dimensions, the I-6 would come all the way to the hood latch...you'd have to bump the hood up about 4" starting at its leading edge to clear the motor.