84 944na starting issue, hot day, low fuel, car sat 2 weeks..vapor lock?
07-30-2011, 04:23 PM
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84 944na starting issue, hot day, low fuel, car sat 2 weeks..vapor lock?
I just had a fun morning....first the back story....
my fuel gauge sticks at half tank....so I usually keep it full...
2 weeks ago a friends emergency had me drive 160 miles....
more concerned for their situation I drove below my gauge....didnt think about gas at all....I live by a gas station so this shouldnt have been an issue...
My daughters borrowed my housekeys to check the mail on their way to the grocery store...also right next door...
Upon their return they discovered they didnt have my keys anymore....
Ive been meaning to rekey my car...I have 3 different keys...so I bought a lockset off ebay....my car sat.....I work...you guessed it...next door.
Normally I start my car everyday....she gets very bitchy if she sits....
I discovered that I needed to either drill or replace my column lock assembly....so I decided...for the sake of my cars health to pop the lock until the new "column lock" arrives monday so I could run the engine....
fired right up for a moment only....then died...restart attempts made it feel like she was bumping a single cylinder trying to get going.....for 10-12 seconds after I stopped engaging the starter....then even that stopped...
on a hunch I knocked the tank...and it sounded empty....so I walked over an got some gas...
knock..knock....knock....stummble...stumble...start....was almost able to get out of the compound and to the gas station...restart attempt....knock..knock....knock....stummble...stumble...start
made it home...Stalled in the lot. pushed into a spot....
I should mention it is 10000degrees out and my car is black....sweat literally spraying out of my pores...
before anyone says DME relay....I swapped 3 different relays around during the starting issues...Over the past year my car has done this wierd not wanting to start a few times...rough idle...die....often with the battery light dimly illuminated??....not consistently...but its a behavior Im quite familiar with at this point. I find that sometimes it only takes switching a "HOT" dme relay, for another one....A few months back I suspected FPR or damper....but the issue disappeared before I could isolate the problem...So I bought $700 in tires I desperately needed and put the issue out of my head...till now
After some rennlisting....I decided to try unplugging an injector....no help...
then I decided to open the rail....didnt remove the nut entirely...just turned enough that....HISSSS...drip drip drip....hmm
retightened...still one injector unplugged....fired right up.....killed the engine....replugged the injector...and started her right up again....let it run for a few minutes...kill...restart...everything seems fine....shes running nice and smoooth again....at least sitting in the lot.
Since trouble seems to come in 3s....as I tried to turn my manual rack to move her into a parking space....suddenly the wheel broke free....I had my kid turn it while I looked under...the coupling clamp to the rack is either loose or, I hope Im paranoid, the splines are stripped...I havent a jack nor stands here so it will have to wait till monday..I cant get a good angle on it without lifting her front.......number 3 is just the usual....need to tighten up the drivers side axle bolts...several of them are waay too loose again...yeah Ideola's getting some money from me soon.....I need locking cv bolts bad LOL...point being no test drive today.
Babbling aside....the point of my rambling post....is it reasonable to assume that the starting issue could have been related to low gas and high temperatures? Vapor lock?
If I could take her for a half hour drive right now Id not be second guessing.....at 27 I expect trouble when a car sits for 2 weeks...I think Im just wanting to hear some thoughts other than my own.
my fuel gauge sticks at half tank....so I usually keep it full...
2 weeks ago a friends emergency had me drive 160 miles....
more concerned for their situation I drove below my gauge....didnt think about gas at all....I live by a gas station so this shouldnt have been an issue...
My daughters borrowed my housekeys to check the mail on their way to the grocery store...also right next door...
Upon their return they discovered they didnt have my keys anymore....
Ive been meaning to rekey my car...I have 3 different keys...so I bought a lockset off ebay....my car sat.....I work...you guessed it...next door.
Normally I start my car everyday....she gets very bitchy if she sits....
I discovered that I needed to either drill or replace my column lock assembly....so I decided...for the sake of my cars health to pop the lock until the new "column lock" arrives monday so I could run the engine....
fired right up for a moment only....then died...restart attempts made it feel like she was bumping a single cylinder trying to get going.....for 10-12 seconds after I stopped engaging the starter....then even that stopped...
on a hunch I knocked the tank...and it sounded empty....so I walked over an got some gas...
knock..knock....knock....stummble...stumble...start....was almost able to get out of the compound and to the gas station...restart attempt....knock..knock....knock....stummble...stumble...start
made it home...Stalled in the lot. pushed into a spot....
I should mention it is 10000degrees out and my car is black....sweat literally spraying out of my pores...
before anyone says DME relay....I swapped 3 different relays around during the starting issues...Over the past year my car has done this wierd not wanting to start a few times...rough idle...die....often with the battery light dimly illuminated??....not consistently...but its a behavior Im quite familiar with at this point. I find that sometimes it only takes switching a "HOT" dme relay, for another one....A few months back I suspected FPR or damper....but the issue disappeared before I could isolate the problem...So I bought $700 in tires I desperately needed and put the issue out of my head...till now
After some rennlisting....I decided to try unplugging an injector....no help...
then I decided to open the rail....didnt remove the nut entirely...just turned enough that....HISSSS...drip drip drip....hmm
retightened...still one injector unplugged....fired right up.....killed the engine....replugged the injector...and started her right up again....let it run for a few minutes...kill...restart...everything seems fine....shes running nice and smoooth again....at least sitting in the lot.
Since trouble seems to come in 3s....as I tried to turn my manual rack to move her into a parking space....suddenly the wheel broke free....I had my kid turn it while I looked under...the coupling clamp to the rack is either loose or, I hope Im paranoid, the splines are stripped...I havent a jack nor stands here so it will have to wait till monday..I cant get a good angle on it without lifting her front.......number 3 is just the usual....need to tighten up the drivers side axle bolts...several of them are waay too loose again...yeah Ideola's getting some money from me soon.....I need locking cv bolts bad LOL...point being no test drive today.
Babbling aside....the point of my rambling post....is it reasonable to assume that the starting issue could have been related to low gas and high temperatures? Vapor lock?
If I could take her for a half hour drive right now Id not be second guessing.....at 27 I expect trouble when a car sits for 2 weeks...I think Im just wanting to hear some thoughts other than my own.
07-30-2011, 10:09 PM
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it ran long enough the first start to convince me that there had been fuel in the line..eliminating suspicion of a bad check valve..reviewing the gas can + subsequent fuel stop confirms the tank was dry. The rough start and repeated stalling sounded like vapor lock per clarks gsm troubleshooting...engine...Engine Is Difficult To Start When Cold.
"When this happens the heat from the engine causes the fuel remaining in the fuel rail to flash to vapor. This causes voiding in the fuel rail. During subsequent startups, it make take a long time cranking the engine or may take several attempts to get the engine to fire. This is due to the fact that the fuel pump may take some time after starting to clear the void and refill the fuel rail. "
It ran right after "venting" the fuel rail.....
when I loosened the nut there was definitely an exhale of gas vapors...an audiable hiss....before it started to drip gas....as soon as the first drips fell I retightened...and it started right up..
I was really hoping that it was vapor lock...my rail was too hot to hold in the heat of the day before venting so that sounded plausible...if its not vapor lock...im back to an elusive issue that has hidden itself away again....
It was running fine when I made my post.....an hour or so after the "post vent trial"
And just after reading this I went down...and she's running smoooth as can be. Fired up on the first turn of the ignition.
As I said initially, I usually run her a few minutes a day because most of my life is walking distance from my apartment....I left town for a week and had trouble starting just like what I described though less extreme.....only doing the stumble start for 2 or 3 attempts...
for several weeks before the keys were lost I was making a 60 mile drive each way 2-3 times a week to visit a girl who I am no longer seeing....and the 160 mile drive the day before it was parked..diverting suspicion away from the pump....it seems that it runs when ran but it ****s when it sits
Also, I had the pump checked last march when I had a "mystery start problem" that turned out to be a bad ignition switch....and a loose ground wire.
So im leaning away from that being the issue now.....
Its frustrating because the problem...whatever it is....is terribly sporadic.
The first obvious issue, I need to get around to fixing my tank sender so I will stop ending up with unacceptable fuel levels....two other times this has happened when parked on steep inclines, with low fuel I assumed air in the lines.
Im trying to avoid my usual temptation to solve a problem with brute force....changing everything out all at once....lines, fpr, damper, pump, check valve, injectors, vacuum lines......its just not economically feasible right now having spent over $1k in tires, locks and registration in the past month.
"When this happens the heat from the engine causes the fuel remaining in the fuel rail to flash to vapor. This causes voiding in the fuel rail. During subsequent startups, it make take a long time cranking the engine or may take several attempts to get the engine to fire. This is due to the fact that the fuel pump may take some time after starting to clear the void and refill the fuel rail. "
It ran right after "venting" the fuel rail.....
when I loosened the nut there was definitely an exhale of gas vapors...an audiable hiss....before it started to drip gas....as soon as the first drips fell I retightened...and it started right up..
I was really hoping that it was vapor lock...my rail was too hot to hold in the heat of the day before venting so that sounded plausible...if its not vapor lock...im back to an elusive issue that has hidden itself away again....
It was running fine when I made my post.....an hour or so after the "post vent trial"
And just after reading this I went down...and she's running smoooth as can be. Fired up on the first turn of the ignition.
As I said initially, I usually run her a few minutes a day because most of my life is walking distance from my apartment....I left town for a week and had trouble starting just like what I described though less extreme.....only doing the stumble start for 2 or 3 attempts...
for several weeks before the keys were lost I was making a 60 mile drive each way 2-3 times a week to visit a girl who I am no longer seeing....and the 160 mile drive the day before it was parked..diverting suspicion away from the pump....it seems that it runs when ran but it ****s when it sits
Also, I had the pump checked last march when I had a "mystery start problem" that turned out to be a bad ignition switch....and a loose ground wire.
So im leaning away from that being the issue now.....
Its frustrating because the problem...whatever it is....is terribly sporadic.
The first obvious issue, I need to get around to fixing my tank sender so I will stop ending up with unacceptable fuel levels....two other times this has happened when parked on steep inclines, with low fuel I assumed air in the lines.
Im trying to avoid my usual temptation to solve a problem with brute force....changing everything out all at once....lines, fpr, damper, pump, check valve, injectors, vacuum lines......its just not economically feasible right now having spent over $1k in tires, locks and registration in the past month.
