944T>996TT?!?!
 

I caught a brake in the weather, the bright sun showing itself, and the roads... Dry! After a few calls I talked a friend into going out for a nice December cruise with me so I wasn't the only A hole driving a Porsche in the winter. I took the cover off the 951, put the key in the ignition and she fired right up. After letting the car warm up to standard running temperatures I hopped in and went on my way to the gas station to meet up. While pumping petrol, bam,there it was pulling in the driveway. Mid December, he pulls up in his stock 2004 996 Twin Turbo. After filling up we decided to drive on the highway because we didnt know what the back roads would have in store for us. Cruising to Starbucks, the rural highway was flawless, no ice, no snow, no traffic.... Behold a pissing contest was in the works.

My phone started ringing and you wouldnt guess who it was..... Hey, how about a 40mph sprint, Ill show you the difference between a stock 996TT and a stock 944 Turbo. Giggling in my head, I accepted the offer. The poor chap thought my car was stock with 217 crank hp XD I have a 61-1, full bolt ons with the boost set at 20lbs. (Standard daily driving boost levels are set at 15lbs, at 20-22lbs afr's are 13's across the board)

In prime gear, both of us brake boosting 2nd gear at 40 mph, he honks, beep, beep, beep and we are off. Steadily I pulled on him and ended up a modest 2-4 cars ahead and let off.

Shocked with the results he calls me up to clarify that my car is NOT stock. Laughing I informed him that my car was pretty heavily modified.

He wanted a second run and the results were the same. Having spent $60,000 buying the 996, he was surprised with the performance a $14,000 951 offers! I always figured the newer 996 would trump a modified 951.

great story!

A bone stock twin isn't that fast. The nice thing about them is that they are very easy to get to 650hp. Exhaust, turbos, tune, intake. Done. A flash alone will add about 80hp/80ft tq. It just takes money.

You have a cupholder in your car?

Great story and congrats on having a great car. However, I keep telling people speed is only a small factor. In the end, your friend still has a newer and more prestigious 911 Turbo (at least in my opinon).

I suppose if you are after "prestige," it'll cost you. I've never been one to worry what others think, though.

He said a 996, not a 993 or 964 3.6

With 247 996 Turbo's on auto trader, it's hardly a prestigious car.

The cheapest one going for $35k from an MSRP of over $130k is an even bigger kick in the prestigious crotch.

Thats very true, I have another friend with a 996 built to about 700awhp, the thing is wild. The owner of the car I raced clarified that the car was tuned, other than that its bone stock. Thats one thing he kept from me until we chatted about our sprint today.

Yep, one thats removable ;)

I agree, it is far more prestigious. That is what makes it a quality kill. :)

:roflmao:
Touché

951 takes down 996TT.....951 is not a "real Porsche"?? lol

When people always say that to me I always say "yes, my car is a REAL Porsche....it is REAL F'n fast"

:)

Nice kill!! Shows how just a few prime mods and a little bit of money, what the 951 is capable of.

Probably one of the most de tuned cars that came out of the factory.

Wonder why your thread got locked in the 996t forum? :D

Nice kill but there is no need to troll . . . .

Oh, and I will be happy to try keep u with you in my 100% stock 996t. . . .. .

:icon107:

Not to be a downer here but I don't think your motor is going to last long on at 20-22lbs boost and 13 AFRs across the board. Unless you are on race fuel 17psi is pushing it and under boost your AFRs should be under 12.

It got closed by me to prevent people from commenting on the thread x post but rather the one here on the 944 forum. :D.

Because there is no nead to kick them when they are down. :)

They already have the slap in the face of a $130K car now worth $40k and then the added insult of a 951 with $1,500 in mods walking it.

Although at $40k it is one heck of a bang for the buck now.

Your right Josh the engine will not last long if I keep running lean with the high boost levels. The boost is set at 15lbs 99% of the time and afr's are in the high 11 WOT. E85 Conversion this winter

I'll give you that...

A Porsche is a Porsche, so I ain't knocking your 951. However, I bought my $35K 996TT for other reasons than to go fast.

I figured you weren't poking fun at it, Porsche ownership is a brotherhood and I didn't post this for 911 owners and 944 owners to bump heads. More times than I can count I passed by a 911, 912, 914, 924, 928, 931, 944, 9517 968, 993, 996, 997, Boxster, Cayman, etc.. Every time I get a honk, nod or wave. We are a close knit group.

You got one heck of a deal, I'd love to own one of those sexy machines!

This..

is why I goto get togethers... last one I went to I had a shiney new GT2 owner tell me he paid way to much for his car after parking next to my 951.. ONE of his wheels cost more than I had in my car at that point.. Guess which one of us enjoyed the drive more?

It isn't about model, or even make that binds us.. it is the essence of the experience...

Fellas,

My first Porsche was a 2000 Boxster S. My second was a (stock) 944 Turbo S. My third (just bought it this past spring) is a 2002 996TT X50. I still have all three (wife loves Porsches also). All three are great cars, each having their own character. The 944TS now has a chip and test pipe, and "feels" on par with the boxster s speed wise. The 996tt X50 is an absolute monster compared to the other two.

At the end of the day, I enjoy them all equally, but for different reasons. I have made many close friends through the Porsche club (yes, even the air cooled guys, althought they look down their noses at my water pumpers). I wish I could afford one example of every model.

Also, how dare you take that beautiful 944 out into the road salt:nono:

Temptation played a huge roll in the decision process :evilgrin:

it really doesnt matter how awesome your car is.... she still isnt going to sleep with you.

Depends..... ;)

I hear ya. I hate the winters in Ohio. I put the cars away in Nov and dont bring them out until April/May.

We just bought a condo in Florida, so my plan is to take the Boxster down there in the fall, and have something to drive when we fly there for long weekends. That should help me keep my sanity during the winter months.

OK OK, just keep rubbing it in for those of us that are stuck in the "saltlands" all winter long.

Interesting story. I would have to agree with josh tho, if you turn up the boost, you should have a separate map or something so as not to turn your 951 into a grenade.

That is awesome! I wish I could drive my 951 year round. I suppose the winter season is a blessing as it is the only thing keeping my 951's miles in check.

Thats the plan, 83# Injectors, Vitesse MAF, Vitesse Chipboard, and E85. :thumbup:

No one likes grenades.

lol. Grenades are no fun! E85 should be interesting. You have easy access to it? I have never seen an E85 pump in the places I have lived!

I hope Im able to say this without punishment.......I bought my 951 for me! I dont care who thinks what! I love it! If I want attention Ill drive the other car I have,....If I want to have fun,enjoy the ride......ITS 951 ALL DAY! And by the way,.....I live in DC area, I get asked 3-4 times a day....."what is it?", might be DC but I also get attention! Keep her clean and running right,...." EYE OF THEY BEHOLDER KIND OF THING"

Since we are talking about prestigious when it comes to 911ish cars, I would take this over a 996 Twin Turbo :D

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...tle/index.html

http://image.motortrend.com/f/featur...Grill_View.jpg

The whole obsession with being the "faster" car is really quite juvenile and makes me wonder the age of many of the members who seem obsessed with beating other cars.

I mean c'mon. the 951 IS a a great car but trying to justify its' superiority by "racing" other cars and saying how much better it is because it's faster and cheaper just screams "Hey I'm 19 and don't really understand classic cars!!!" Do you really think a 951 is better than a 996 TT?? Be proud of your awesome car and stop trying to prove how great it is.

I'm sure your car is also faster and cost less than a 550 Spyder or a Lusso. It's NOT about speed and cost. Learn to appreciate other cars for their timeless lineage and you'll not only appreciate the true classics more but your 951 as well.

If not, I have a little shifter kart that cost less than your 951 and can destroy it in every aspect! ;)

The performance automotive industry world wide has been juvenile for 60 years. Otherwise every perfermance car ever made would still make 100hp.

But they don't, they make more power and get faster year after year.

Your car is only as fast as the last car you outran.
We own performance cars, it comes with the territory. :p

Classic cars? 550 Spyder? We are talking about a 996 here, not a Duesenberg.

What kind of lap times would you run at Road America (the full track)?

LOL... and ditto :)

One day when picking up my son from daycare, I had a guy come over to me and compliment me (honest compliment) on my "really clean Datsun." Honestly I think I prefer that most people see my car and think it's some 1980s Datsun instead of a Porsche. Keeps me lower on society's radar.

That being said - if someone came along and offered to trade me straight up for a 996TT in really great shape, I'd have to think long and hard about it. I *love* my 951 (a love that goes back to childhood) but it would still get me thinking.

I agree but it still is nothing more than a d*&k measuring contest. At some point you just learn to appreciate performance at all levels and not try to play the one up game.

Performance cars? You do realize you are talking about a 944/951 don't you? ;) Would you rather show up at a PCA event in a 996 or a 944? They are each awesome and deserving of respect but to try and say a 944 is better than a 996 or GT2 is laughable.

Given I could run the kart full out thru most of the corners and gear it to do over 100 on the straight it would be pretty interesting albeit mismatched.

I'm not bashing you guys and appreciate your enthusiasm. I just get a good laugh every time someone thinks a 951 is the end all be all.

The only 996 that has beaten me in the last year at regional PCA autocross events has been a 996 GT3. And only on occasion - I've beaten him too. There weren't many 996's with a faster raw time than me at Parade this year, either.

Hard to do in a laggy 944 Turbo. But possible.

As for which I'd rather show up in? I get a LOT more attention at PCA events in my 944 than any of the 996 guys do (including GT3's.) I have a LOT of people stopping by to check out the car, introduce themselves, ask me about it, etc. Some guys loved them as kids, some guys used to have one when they were new, etc. So that's a no-brainer - I'd rather show up in a 944. 996s are a dime a dozen.

"Better" is a relative term. Where did anyone mention a GT2????

As for PCA events, it's a hell of a lot more impressive to show up in a 20+ year old sports car and hold your own against the newest models.

Most would not agree a 928 is "better" than those cars either, especially on the track.
Yet that doesn't stop Mark Anderson from winning most POC / PCA races in GT2 and ahead of most in GT1. Don't bring up the old excuse of pouring money into anything to make it fast......he is on a shoestring budget compared to a lot of the competition.

Add to this the known reliability issues associated with the 996, yes I fully believe the 944 is a better automobile.
A friend of mine ditched his 951 & 911 Slantnose for a "newer" (he assumed better) Porsche. Look where that got him:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-camshaft.html

Agreed. Which is why the automotive industry is male dominated. LOL

:p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSMQM4ASGRg

Again, all of these cars have different personalities/qualities.

Going out to dinner with the wife on a warm summer evening in the Boxster S seems to be what that car is made for. We have taken it on several longs trips to different PCA events, and it is also a fine traveling car. Our Volvo S60R is our best long distance cruiser though. 300hp, AWD, quiet, good economy and plenty of luggage space.

When I want to tear around old school style and act like a kid, the 944T S is great fun for that. We have made a few longish trips in it (Tail of the Dragon a few times) and it is not bad. I have done 2 DEs with it, and had a blast. I passed many different cars (to include a "tuned" Lancer Evo), and got passed by a Mini Cooper. In my opinion, and at least at my skill level, driver ability is more of factor than the type of car you drive.

The 996TT is fun, and to me, scary fast. It is completely stock, but does have the factory X50 package. Of all the cars I have, this is the worst long distance traveling car. The fuel tank seems too small, and the road/engine noice gets very old after a few hours on the interstate. Compared to my other Porsches, the luggage space sucks. We drove it to a PCA event this past spring (Cleveland to Melbourne Fla) and I vowed never again.

I do worry about the health and longevity of the two new porsches, as cars with the M96 engines (Boxsters and 996 911s) as well as the 996TT with the Metzger engine (much different from the M96 engine) are gaining a reputation for having internal problems (IMS bearings, cam chain wear, etc)

The Boxster S is the least "regarded" car by most porsche owners. I get far more positive comments from non-porsche people.

THe 944T S gets a fair amount of attention from fellow porsche owners, to include my mechanic. The car is in very nice shape, and I spend a small forutne on it every year to keep it looking and running properly. I think more and more porsche owners are starting to appreciate just how good the 944 turbos was in its day, and how well it holds up against more modern cars.

The 996TT gets about an even amount of attention from both porsche owners and non porsche owners. I even had a pretty girl smile at me once while I was in the 996TT. That never happened in the other two cars :mad:

Can I say one Porsche is better than the other? Yes and no, all depends. Is the Volvo a better car than the Porsches? In some ways, for me, yes.

Do I appreciate ALL performance cars? Yes

My wife hates American performance cars, both old and new. I love them. My wife talks trash about Ferarri, especially when they whoop Porsche during ALMS. I covet Ferarris.

I guess I just appreciate all performance cars, even Dodge Challangers :thumbup:

GT2... mentioned right above. ;) The sentiment above is true but I'm sure the GT2 owner was just being polite and he enjoyed the drive a heck of a lot more.

You don't have to convince me how great the 944/951 is compared to more modern cars. I just think it's funny how important it is to some people to validate whatever it is they are driving at the moment as the original post did. I'm sure some where there is a "My Civic smoked a Porsche" thread raging at this very moment.

HA!!! That is a classic.

It is scarce around these parts but it is at nearly every McCormic, BP and Meijer gas station.

Where did I say in my posting that my friend or I were "obsessed" with being the faster car? I suppose if I was obsessed I would have stuffed in a LS2 along with a turbocharger and I would have posted a thread on the 996 forum titled "Whos Next Chubby" :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Once again, where in my posting did I say my 951 was all mighty and superior to anything let alone a 996TT? I am happy with my car, the 996TT owner was the one that wanted to compare. I have ran against this 996TT at Grattan and Gingerman and he was never able to keep up, granted my car is track prepped, fitted with slicks at track events. Id say driver ability is the main factor in that. I cant help but laugh at your "I dont understand classic cars" statement, especially when I know enough about this classic car to embarrass a newer superior 996TT. Im not bashing the 996TT by any means and once again, I did not post this up for 911 and 944 owners to bump heads.

:_otopic: I appreciate other cars and my own. I

:bowdown: There we go... A pissing contest.

Once again, If it was so important to me I would stuff a LS2 with a turbocharger in my 951, navagate on to the 996 forum and post a thread titled "Whos Next Chubby?" Get off your horse Napolian, your starting to look like a fan boy. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: 996

This argument is as old as time itself.

Ran into it when I was into Shelby-Dodges. Ran into it when I was into DSMs. Ran into it when I had my Corvette.

It's always interesting to see how an older/cheaper car stacks up to a newer/expensive one, just for the fun of it. But the inevitable argument that follows is always one that you can't win - from either side. Box stock vs. box stock, we know the 996TT will dust a 951 handily. But add mods, and the 951 can beat the 996TT. Then then add the same mods to the 996TT, and the 996TT is back on top. Then the argument will turn to how much money one person spent vs. the other to win. Then some guy in a Civic joins in the fun and starts talking about HP-per-liter....

Can't we just call the story entertaining and leave it at that?

My mistake then. Seemed to me you were boasting about beating/"being greater than" a 996 TT. I must have read into it too much and knee jerked. Sorry if it seemed personal.

The real irony of all this nonsense is that I have a 944 "outlaw" project I'm working on that is destined to have an LS3 stuffed into it. Who knows, maybe I'll soon post my own 944 > thread and I can get slammed.

This story would be even more entertaining if I could get a ride in piperporsche's car. A 951 that can smoke a 996TT must be a heckuva ride.

I'll wait for the good weather :thumbup:

I think my wife's Land Rover could take it though

LOL. I'm with you 100% on that.

I haven't ridden in a 996TT before... but I have had the fortunate experience of getting to drive a friend's new 997TT, and it's a pretty wild ride. If the 996TT is anywhere close to the straight line performance of the 997TT, then that is one hell of a 951!

I myself and a huge fan of 996's, I would love to own one but I lack the garage space and the finances to maintain and modify it properly. Keep us updated on the project, that will be one wild car once its finished!

Here is a youtube video of a 944 vs a LS3 ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VulN2ywAfFM

+1

:cheers:

There are some fast SUV's out there! Haha. 944 Fest Ill let you drive it yourself :rockon:

BOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

I was looking forward to a good thread battle.......lost any reason to post this image:

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_ima...D_IS_GOING.jpg

^HAHAHAHAHAHAHA^

At 13mpg, her Land Rover passes eveything but the gas station

I've never been to the 944 Fest :icon107:, but this year I'll make sure I'm in town. Thanks for the offer Bro.

Hey Hotshoe, where in Florida are you?

My wife and i were heading down to Florida this past spring right after we bought our X50 996TT. We were on the interstate between Tampa and Naples. The southbound lane was 3 lanes wide, but there were about 10 cars in a big knot, traveling at about the same speed. I was caught in the middle lane and could not get through this knot. We rode along like this for at least 20 minutes. I generally keep my cool in traffic, but i was really losing my patience. Finally, the cars started to seperate a bit. As soon as I got an opportunity, I changed a couple of lanes and mashed the throttle (first time i really got into this car on the highway). I felt like I was shot out of a cannon. I finally looked down at the instrument cluster and saw 140mph. I could not believe it, I've never been in a car that could accelerate like that. Completely stable as well, with very little wind noise. I had to hit the brakes to come back down to legal speeds. Amazing car really. I cant imagine these guys who are getting 800 + hp out of these things. Where do they drive them?

No problem. Its a peppy car for what it is. Unfortunately Im already used to its straight line speed. The next step is E85 conversion, head work and stripping weight. The weight stripping will be the best impact on lap times.

I'm down in Ft. Lauderdale but I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio. Small world huh?

If you get down this way let me know and you can stop by and see the little collection I manage next to my studio. Not many Porsches but we do have a very nice 356, Carrera S, and a GT3.

We can get a thread battle going about LSX swaps! ;) That always seems to be a hot topic. Unfortunately right now mine is on hold until after Cavallino. If I do well at the show I might just have to go LS7 to make sure Piper doesn't smoke me.

Im a fan of the swaps, a guy I cruise with has a C6 Z06 with a Billy Boat Exhaust.. Jeeze that V8 sounds great, put down 446rwhp. Assuming they make similar power to the rear wheels, it would be quite interesting to line up a bolt on 951 with a LSX 951.

If I grenade my current engine and my spare 2.5L Id consider a LSX stuffed 951.

The TT block is based on the air-cooled one, and thus doesn't share a rear main seal or intermediate shaft with the Carreras.

Other than a 10+ year old car starting to have electrical problems (what else is new), and the usual turbo headaches, I don't see what is so unreliable about the rest of the 996.

I think overall it's fair to say that the general age and 'maturity' of the 944 guys vs the 996tt guys is going to be younger. This is exactly when you do go out on the streets and proceed to look for kills of this nature. Hopefully in a safe environment. I am not a fan of the 3 honks and floor it form of street drag, but I can see why the kids do it. To me it's not racing, it is a pissing match and one that is usually taken by the guy who's spent more money on a car that won't stand up to the rigors of track racing. Still, I bet virtually all of us have had a street drag when we were younger.

The fact that an old forgotten if not dismissed model of Porsche can walk a modern twin turbo with 1.1L extra capacity is a fair kill. Why should it be a surprise that it gets told on a forum. Sure, spend a few bucks on the 996tt and it will rocket past the same 951...but how much did it cost to get there? Spend the same amount that you have on the tt and see how fast the 951 is etc....

I think the most satisfying thing is that the guys in their 996, 997, GT3/2s that used to not even look at our cars in the pits or on the track, now come up and talk or want to check them out.
So the 951 may not be the greatest car or even Porsche out there, of course it's not. But it's sure fun to beat the guys with the cars that are regarded far above us on the pecking order. Why shouldn't we be proud. ;)

Perfect!! lol

What is the blonde guy's name?? I know he is/was a world class rally driver but I can't remember his name. He is Swiss.

Who was the hottie?? :D

That's two time F1 champion Mika Hakkinen - as it says in the video title.... ;)
He's from Finland

of course, All the best drivers in the world are from Finland. ,)

I wish the USA would adopt even 1/4 of your drivers education requirements.

Yep, we could do with some down here too!

[QUOTE=Hotshoe;8168629]I'm down in Ft. Lauderdale but I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio. Small world huh?

If you get down this way let me know and you can stop by and see the little collection I manage next to my studio. Not many Porsches but we do have a very nice 356, Carrera S, and a GT3.


Hotshoe,

For the past 3 years we've done the PCA Spacecoast region's Sunrise to Sunset rally. Loads of fun. Derek Bell is usually the guest of honor at the pre-event party hosted by Porsche of Melbourne. If we go in 2011, I'll give you a shout and perhaps we can link up. By the way, the weather in Cleveland SUCKS right now.

[QUOTE=grayman;8171163]Cool. Derek Bell is cool as hell. My favorite time hanging out with him at the Collier Museum while he told us stories of all the particular cars.