User 462021

[quote]Originally posted by Water944t:
<strong>I have a video of a rally, where a driver loses control over a hump in the road and slams into a crowd of people, all innocent bystanders. That is a case where driving safely at the track didnt help much. Pro races and DE events have all seen deaths, even in those tightly controlled circumstances. **** happens.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thats still a totally different circumstance. People at the rally or any other track know of the dangers. They know anything can happen their, ecspecially at the rally races. You can't compare innocent people being killed at a track/rally with innocent people being killed on a public road.

I don't know why I read these threads. This is the last time I post in one.

billybones

I have owned a 70 mach-1 a 70 charger 440 police intercepter motor, and equipment to make it ride flat.. now a 944.. I drive like grandpa. With no eyesight.. I do not race, never have. not even light to light. will rev with the guy next to me. But I give the INS, and GOV, enough money. I just wave and nod! watch them take off and smile... but I lived out near the dessert, and work nights... open road .. yes I have taken cars up to speed. 70 mach-1 drove better the faster it went.. charger is very scary after 90.. floats to much... have yet to do over 70 in the 944.. no race stories sorry.. just a driver that enjoys the ride..Hmm I like that... just a driver that enjoy's the ride.

Danno

Check out these ideos.



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Robby

Mike D,

Interesting story- I like the old Mustangs, as well as several of the older muscle cars. I'm just not much of a fan of the newer ones- Actually, the newest breed of Mustangs are okay, IMO, but I like the classics better- same w/the Vettes- I think the mid 50's were the best of them...

*eurospeed951*

My first semester of collage in TN I had a 944 Na. At about 6 am one morning I got a call that a good friend of mine had been killed street racing his mustang gt DRUNK. He was thrown from the fliping mustang and pinned between a telaphone pole and his car. This happend only a few feet from my parents house and on the way from a house I grew up in. I decided to go for a drive. I did not know very many back rouds in Tn, but as I drove I got mader and mader and my speed increased till I was pushing the **** out of my car. I was drifting completely sidewords through corners, over and over again. I came around a corner in frot of a farm with my car completely perpendicular to the road. Looking out of the drivers side window I see an F-350 about 8 feet from my door. By just blind luck the rear hooked up and I poped around strait in my line. Both of us stoped scared as ****. I decided to go home. Dam I was stupid!!!

LastV8

I've done my share of racing on the street and drag strip. Mostly we'd just run fast together wherever we were going. This was in or Mustang vs Iroc/Grand National etc days, the late 80's.

Anyway, one incident that stands out for me happened going north on the New Jersey Turnpike just about parallel to Newark airport. I had been commuting between NYC and DC sometimes three times a week for about a year so I had the drive down to a science. If I chose I could do it in as little as 2 hours and change, no tickets, cause I knew where the troopers sat, the tactics, everything not to mention use of a CB radio.

This particular run, I was just hauling by myself with maybe 2 other cars keeping up using me as a shield. A white Corvette of mid to late 80's vintage comes roaring up around them to tangle with me in my 88 5.0. Fine. I drop down to third and proceed to cut him to pieces. The guy wasn't particularly skilled in weaving without using the emergency lane and really only had a clear advantage when traffic opened up and he could just lay on the gas and pull away. Well, as we're going he gets another opening and I stay in the middle lane as he just pulls away in the fast lane. We were in the car lanes,another three lanes (truck lanes) to our right are divided by a barrier. I look over and see a motorcycle keeping up. So, the Vette is doing his thing, and up ahead I see three cars, all abreast of each other. There is nowhere to go but since we have a few seconds we both figure one car or another will stagger and we'll have a hole to go through. We close hard and none of those three cars had moved. They were side by side and the Vette is ahead of me by about three car lenghts. He starts braking hard as do I when I see sparks coming out from his front wheels and I think, "****", if he can't brake for this I don't have a prayer. Mustang brakes back then were discs up front and drums in the back. You have one good hard stop with them before they would just fade. We all(5.0 owners in MD) learned to drive without really using them.So I'm in my brakes hard and getting down to third when I feel the pedal start to sink and that's it for me. The Vette is still spewing sparks as I go by him and I see the car in front of him has started to slow leaving a gap for me which was desperately needed. Punched it (still in 3rd) and slid through the narrow gap towards the gaurdrail, caught the car in a kind of four wheel forward drift (cause remember, it's cheating to use the emergency lane) and just went on ahead. A look in the rearview mirror reveals the Vette now trapped behind all three cars which are now somehow even again. I look over to my right, and the guy on the bike, is looking at me from the fast lane of the truck lanes. He's holding his hand up with his forefinger and thumb, about an inch apart and then gives a thumbs up. I wave and settle down to a regular speed when a few minutes later out of nowhere a Supra Turbo comes up on my right. The Vette by the way, has caught up and decided to stay behind me. Anyway this Turbo comes up aggressively and we're now in a section that has remerged us with the truck traffic. So, I look over and the guy is just staring at me hard. I see an 18 wheeler up ahead and without changing speed I proceed to pull up behind it. The truck is in the middle lane directly ahead of me, the Supra in the slow lane. The Vette off to my left in the fast lane, slightly behind. So, I pull up to the back of the truck, with my right fender beside it's metal tail bar. This move involves getting your bumper as close to his mudflap as possible if not nudging it should his rear axle be far enough back in the trailer set up. This guys wasn't but anyway, I pull up so that my right front A pillar is just under the corner of the trailer. Passengers, if you have one usually pee in their pants by this time and this has on occasion necessitated swapping out the seats for new ones from a car on the dealership lot where we(5.0 owners) worked. Anyway, I'm watching the A pillar, his trailer, and the truck drivers rearview mirror as I peel off ever...so....slowly. Once clear, I drop back again, enough to see the Supra and calmly look over and make eye contact. His expression has changed (cause he thinks I'm crazy) and he just leaves me alone.

This was back when I was 19 and before all the flames come (like they won't)I'll just say, the skills I learned doing crazy irresponsible crap like that have come into play in adult life more than once but that's a whole nuther story. I'll just say the CHP thanked me for taking action. If you wanna hear that particular story, lemme know.

<img src="graemlins/icon501.gif" border="0" alt="[icon501]" />

Dave951M

In my old age (since I haven't suffered natural selection yet) I rarely get into it with anybody else on the highway. HOWEVER-- there was this one time about 6 months ago whilst getting onto I40 westbound cloverleaf, I met up with a Vette (Z06 I think) just as we were getting onto the ramp. We've seen each other a number of times, nodded and waved, just this time, we both took off down the ramp onto the freeway. Both of us merged in a "drift posture" and then settled into traffic a bit, still moving at a rapid pace. There was some odd looking movement in the rearview so I looked into the mirror to see a riced up Celica bent on getting into this little "street race." Only, we weren't really racing, just enjoying driving fast. At the split between bypass and business 40, all traffic went left, we went right. The Vette and I hammered it all the way to 150+ indicated, the Celica vanished at an exponential rate in the mirrors. No one but us for a ways, then there was traffic ahead, so we both let off down to about 70. I happened to look back up for the Celica only to see it rapidly growing in my rearview mirror and suddenly go heavy nose down on the brakes. Great, I'm going to bite it from being rearended by a stupid kid in a riced out Celica. The Vette and I worked our way through the traffic into another open spot. He looked over to see where I was, I nodded back. We held formation for a while to let the Celica catch up. Right as he nearly rearended the Vette, we both hammered it again, not letting off til well over 140 and no Celica around. After a couple of miles, the Vette was at his exit, he slowed and waved. I continued on at about 70 and sure enough, the Celcia nearly hit me again. This time, the kid seemed to realize what he did, he pulled even, thumbs up, waved and got off at the next exit. Maybe there's hope for kids today.

'Nother time leaving a PCA meeting, I was following Ian through a ramp onto bypass 40, don't know just how fast but we both were moving right along. My stock 951 was heeling over a bit, Ian's was nearly dead flat. That's one great suspension setup he has.

Moral of the story, driving fast is great fun, just the consequences can be drastic, so it's best left to track days or DE events. I don't drive extremely fast often, but when I do, the road is nearly deserted, with little or no easy access from the sides, and never, ever light to light in a city. Back in the day, I also suffered from the immortality syndrome like most teenagers. My son jokingly says that he cannot be killed by conventional means, but one good accident cured him of any such delusions. We now both autoX together, keeping the really enthusiastic driving between the cones (hopefully).

Dave

Robby

LastV8,

I'll bite- what about the CHP story? Glad to hear you've settled down on the "running underneath the rear-end of semis" type driving- I did that type of stuff a little bit back when I was in high school, only I was in a late '80's Integra (unless in someone else's car) so the potential for overall speed and recklessness was lower- of course the potential for serious accident might not have been much different- man I was lucky! Hope to God I stay that way, but I've definately tried to reduce the potential a little- most cars just didn't have quite enough built-in "idiot factor" to save me from myself back then, so it WAS only pure luck that I'm still here. But now, instead of drivning all-out ***** to the wall 24/7, I try to drive fast but safe- it's still difficult for me to not get pretty damn aggressive when a couple of cars are blocking me out by driving side by FU**ING side- I HATE THAT...

LastV8

I hear you Robby. I look back on that time and quite frankly, my friends and I are lucky to be alive. It was unbelievably stupid but it's also water under the dam.

Alright, actually there are two CHP stories(memory is goin out on me) but the one I was referring to happened last year on the 110 freeway heading south towards San Pedro.

I was in my 928S4 cruising in the 85 to 90mph range all by my lonesome when I picked up a tag along. He was driving a mid to late 80's Mercury Sable and was quite frankly a pain in the ***. I was heading for a business appointment, enjoying my car and now I had this guy getting in my way riding in my blindspot etc. I slowed my speed to let him go by and what happens when you do this? They go by and stay within 2 car lengths of your front bumper. So, with traffic kind of opening up ahead I decided I'd go to warp drive for a minute or two and leave him behind once and for all. There was a truck in the far right lane, one of those cab and shipping container 18 wheelers(where the container rides at an angle), in the middle lane was a Honda Accord coupe of mid to late 80's vintage and coming up behind him was the Mercury Sable.

The Sable moved to the left lane just as soon as I did so he was effectively blocking my path. We're all still moving at a pretty good clip and gaining on the truck. I dropped back more and was now probably 10 to 15 car lengths behind. The Sable kind of hung there in the left lane and then the Honda simply moved over on him without looking. I was a millisecond from punching it and going for the gap the Honda would leave when.. Holy moly! From that point it looked like a scene out of CHIP's or Days of Thunder. The Honda makes contact with the Sable. Hard. Both cars now go into a broad slide noses aiming right and as I look in disbelief are headed right for the truck which we'd now caught and was ambling along in the slow lane. Oblivious to the carnage headed for it. I'm on the brakes kind of hard but I'm not ready to stop just yet since the 110 is a wide highway with lots of places to go and I had all other traffic behind me. So, they slide over to the truck and two things happen the first of which took me a second to realize. First, the Mercury Sable recovered his slide in the middle lane...secondly, the Honda did not and proceeded to put it's nose underneath the container on the truck where it's rear axle rode up onto the hood...and SPIT THE CAR OUT FEROCIOUSLY. I am now on the brakes hard because this Honda is coming back across my front end towards the divider. I move to the middle lane as he heads tail end first into the divider and WHAM, all the glass explodes in the car except the windshield and the car comes to rest against the wall facing the correct direction in traffic. Wow! I'm now at a crawl and move up directly next to the car to look for injured passengers. The driver is groggy but moving, stunned really, then I look up for the other car and.....he is high tailing it out of there!

Now a few months before that, my girlfriend got into a nasty accident when someone ran a red light and broadsided her car. The occupants of that car walked away in the confusion as she tried to shout, no one went after them or stopped them. So, here I see this guy just taking off down the freeway. I take a last look at the Honda driver who's moving around more and I just go after the Sable. It's not a problem to catch him BUT he's caught the traffic ahead of him and is weaving through it. I catch the tail end of that traffic soon enough and tackle it from the slow lanes in an attempt to sneak up on him. All I want is his tag number. He doesn't see me for a bit, and I get close, and then he does see me and this sets off a new burst of weaving which I don't want since we're now both buried in traffic. The car is underpowered, and the moves he makes sloppy. Oh, and the rear window is heavily tinted so I can't see into the car or through it. When weaving behind a car you have to be able to see through it, since to do it well you have to drive as if he's not there. Anyway this isn't for fun so I manage to get the tag number and start dialing 911. I also immidiately start to drop back and let him go. He starts moving for the right lane to hop off at the next available exit which is a straight shot up to a traffic light. I start to pull over as well as I've now got 911 on the phone...and they are ambivilant.


Now, I'm pulled over in the emergency lane. The fleeing driver has pulled into the emergency lane of the exit ramp. He's exiting the car and threatening me. I'm on the phone with a bored sounding 911 operator giving him a full description, tag number etc. He's like, I'll send someone out. I say, 'yeah, except he's running now." He says, "ok, we'll send someone south on the 110." I say, "he's on the offramp for the surface streets." (The indifference was unbelieavable but does not stop there.) So now the driver is waving and getting excited and I've got the median between me and him. I can't stay there and tell the 911 operator so. I pull off and continue on my way to my appointment.

I tell my appointment and fellow 928 owner Pete, about the whole thing and on a whim call the local police dept to report the incident. Their response? Did it happen on the freeway? Yes. Well then that's CHP's jurisdiction. What?!?! That was it. Unfreakingbelieavable. So, an hour goes by and I leave Pete and head north on the 110. As I near the 405 interchange what should I see but the driver of the Sable parked on the side of the road next to a emergency call box. He returned!! I see no cops, no ChP, Nuthin. A quarter mile away is the Honda, by itself, no cops no nuthin. What? So I flip around, and driving south on the 110 again, I pass the Honda, glass is everywhere, and it's clear no emergency vehicles or anything have stopped. I pass the Sable driver and a girlfriend or someone is WITH HIM! This guy has had time to call a friend, who is now sitting and waiting with him in another car and still NO POLICE OR ANYTYHING.

What kind of mess is this? I get off at another ramp and find the local CHP barracks or station whatever they call them and walk in. I tell the whole story to the receptionist who brings a Chippy over, this woman and you know what she tells me? "This is a shift break some we're coming and going which is why no one made it there yet." Are you f***** kidding me? Should I mark this time down to rob banks and plan getaways??? She reluctantly takes down my info as a witness and I proceed to give her every phone number I have.

Upon passing the scene again I now see all the units and whatnot. About 20 minutes later as I'm near home I get a call on the cell from a CHP unit and he's asking me all the questions including did I get the tag on the 18 wheeler? No, I say and tell him all that I saw. He asks again this time wistfully for the tag of the 18 wheeler and this time, I ask why. He then proceeds to tell me that the driver of the Honda told him the truck swerved into his lane etc etc etc. I'm like. What?!?!??!?! You've got to be kidding me, the truck never moved. Had his trailer not hopped up into the air he would've never known what was going on behind him. The CHippy is like whow.. you serious? Now he gets the straight scoop, and we get it all straightened out. The Chippy is thanking me profusely for setting the record straight, even forgave the brief chase I engaged in.


<img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

I need an editor.

Water944t

[quote]Originally posted by Tim Strayer:
<strong>

Thats still a totally different circumstance. People at the rally or any other track know of the dangers. They know anything can happen their, ecspecially (sic) at the rally races. You can't compare innocent people being killed at a track/rally with innocent people being killed on a public road.

I don't know why I read these threads. This is the last time I post in one.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Go watch the video, it wasnt a case of people knowing that they were at risk. And I certainly can compare it to street racing. Lots of street races happen where kids line the streets to watch.

You are NOT going to stop street racing, not with words or laws. As long as kids are allowed to drive, they will bring their sense of invulnerabilty to the streets. It is a teenage tradition going back to the horse-age.

The best you can hope for is to impart a small amount of knowledge to them. Ask them to race in more sensible areas, and to understand the car they are driving. I personally spend time talking to kids in my area who are perfomance minded. I try to relate to them on their level, not force them to my opinion. Most of them are level-headed guys, with a few wild ones. These guys all race on the streets, but luckily most of them use the dumproad, which is MUCH safer than red lights in town.

I guess I am unsure why you read these posts, too. It just seems to frustrate you a lot. Maybe you could go out to the strip on a Sat. night, and meet some of these kids. Try a pro-active approach, instead of throwing your hands up in disgust because they dont act the way you THINK they should. Sulking is very unattractive.

I personally have more fear of grandma/grandpa in the 6000lb Caddilac going 25mph on the freeway, than I do of a kid in a ricer going fast. At least the kid has a reflex or two left, and he can see over the dash. Not excusing, mind you. Just stating my preference.

I was a manager for a large GM dearlership here in NM. We had a Caddy client, who had had a stoke. He couldnt turn his head to the left anymore. So, to pull out in traffic, he would count to 10, and punch it. After about 20 near misses, he finally killed a man and his wife on a touring Harley. VERY SCARY!

In the last month, I have been nearly killed by at least 3 old morons who should have taken a taxi. Just yesterday a guy, at least 80 years old in a Caddy, pulled out in front of me, less than 100 feet away in a 45mph zone, and then flipped me the bird! (heh, nice run-on)



I dont bother bitching about things I can change. And I believe that by being a friend and mentor in a slight way to some of these kids locally makes a difference.

Turby

Oh my god!!!!!!! Old people and side by side drivers!!!!!!!!!AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

Thaddeus

Water944T:

Laws can make a difference in conduct if people know the law and the consequences. It's a matter of education.

---Pop Quiz---

Question: If Driver A is street racing and thier opponent Driver B loses control and kills a bystander, who's going to jail for manslaughter?

Answer: Both of them. <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />

See how educational that was?

Thaddeus

User 462021

[quote]Originally posted by Water944t:
<strong>
I dont bother bitching about things I can change. And I believe that by being a friend and mentor in a slight way to some of these kids locally makes a difference.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Great idea! I enjoyed the discussion.

LastV8

Thaddeus if that were the case we wouldn't have so many people in jail now for any number of offenses. Adding laws doesn't seem to make a bit of difference to detering any kind of crime one wants to commit violent or otherwise. Only a sense of self worth and future mitigates how much any one person is willing to risk or gamble at any given moment in time.

Anyway, there's no point in getting upset. This thread was started to post race stories. It does not state whether the postings were to be street or track but it's interesting that no one has really posted any actual track stories. A video here and there but mostly it's street stuff.

So, I'll post an actual track story. I had converted a 87 Volvo 740 Turbo to a V8 Volvo using the Ford 5.0 engine and a Converse Engineering adapter kit. A poor mans M5 if you will. When I got my car back a few weeks later it was Mustang fast and the perfect sleeper. The balance of the car was better as the engine had to be slid back against the firewall to get the shifter in the proper place in the car and it was a blast to drive. It did not however, have a posi though the rear end in the 740 was American made (Dana 30) so you could switch that over if you cared to. I never got around to it.

One weekend I was racing in the brackets at Island Raceway and doing quite well. For those of you unfamiliar with drag racing, bracket racing allows cars of two very different speeds (within a class)to compete equally on the track. You post a dial in number(time) on your windshield that you think or know your car will run on the track. If you dial in at 14.9 seconds for the quarter mile and your oppenent at 11.5 seconds then you will have the difference of time between the two as a head start. You then have to beat him or her across the line without breaking your dial in number and he has to beat you across the line without breaking his. If you beat him across the line but run faster than your posted time you lose. Ditto for him. Lots of strategy is involved and you can change your dial in number in staging as you wind down in the eliminations to the really fast cars or really accurate drivers.

My car would run mid 14's and 90 something mph if memory serves. Since I had no traction I had to leave the line grandma slow, feather it through first and second, punch it and then hang on. I looked pretty goofy pulling up to the line in my helmet and foregoing any burnout since there was no point in my car. I'd wait while the car next to me would do some monster burn out. I would dial in at around 15 seconds since I figured out that it took a car that was in the high 11's to catch me. Anything in the 12's I could outrun and brake hard without breaking out of my dial in time. I snookered quite a few people. Once you're down the track and hanging on, all you can really do is look over your shoulder or in the mirror at your hard charging opponent as he struggled to catch you without breaking out of his dial in number. You then just have to judge whether you can get through the traps before he does. They'd just look at my car in disbelief as they failed to catch me. When I pulled back into staging I'd see the double takes of the guys already there as I pulled back in for another round having sent another car home. Well, as far as I knew to that point it would take something something in the 12's to send me home. I'd already elimated a number of Chevelle's, Vette's and GTO's. Finally when I pulled into staging, folks had my car figured out. The 740 body is lighter than the Mustang body, also stiffer and my suspension soft which is what you want for the dragstrip for good launches.

So I finally get this 5.0 Mustang that I didn't really get much of a good look at during practice or races. He sees that he's going to have to line up with me and changes his dial in number from 12.2 down to 11.9. That's quite a difference and I'm thinking, man, how am I gonna out run him? He's got skinny tires up front, the car leans to one side so with torque the car will launch straight. Well, nothing I can do now. At this point everyone in the stands is looking with interest as my banged up gray Volvo pulls to the line yet again and me in my goofy red rent a helmet. I pull directly to the lights and stage while this guy does a huge burn out. He finally stages and my lights drop first letting me go. I get through the gears as quickly as I can with as little wheel spin as I can manage so I can get to third gear and stand on the gas in what I thought was to be a futile attempt to outrun him to the line. As I'm going down the track I can hear him launch and I resist the urge to change anything I'm doing in the car so as not to upset my precarious traction issues and blow my run. Well I'm now in third and there's not much else I can do except watch him reel me in and suddenly his car seems to leap out at me....he's got nitrous!!! Up to that time I'd been going through the trap in third with no need to shift to fourth nor did I think it'd do any good. I glance forward and I'm closing on the traps, and I say F**k it and pull a speed shift to fourth, we flash through and it's tough to tell whether I actually beat him through it was so close. It turns out not to matter though, I did beat him by a hair but I broke out of my dial in time by a 10th of a second in order to outrun him to the line. My car hadn't ran that fast in practice nor had I driven it (shifted) that well so I had no idea I could've dialed down a smidgen in order to outrun him and not break out. Ah well, live and learn. I made it down to the last three races and in the old sleeper Volvo, that was good enough. The mustang got sent home in the final by a girl driving a Chevelle and she was so good she ran her dial in time to the tenth each and every time she went down the track.

<img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Thaddeus

I'm not upset. Just laying out some facts about the law. Nobody wants to go to prison, and I thought it might persuade some folks to save racing for the track.

These threads always turn into arguments about the ethics and wisdom of street racing, I can't get up a full head of steam about it anymore.

Thaddeus