Matt O.

I know it's been done or talked about before...

What year 944 would be the best to start with to make a light weight, stock engine, 944? The early years, or later? I'd like to stick with something that I can purchase for $3-4k, and I do not care if the interior is the new or old. I would imagine the early years would be lighter, but not 100% certain.

I know others have done this, but search didn't come up with anything. Any ideas?

Arominus

The 83 is the lightest and has manual steering, the later the car the heavier it gets.

Also consider the 924s, its pretty light as far as the later cars go.

tifosiman

The early cars are "the lightest" mainly because spec and comfort goodies were added as the years went on. You can make a late car fairly light by getting rid of a lot of crap.

IMHO I'd buy an 85.5 or 86 N/A and go from there. They have all of the advantages of the later interior yet still have early offset (for nice lightweight Fuchs alloys).

till_that_day

forgive my ignorance but... What makes a RS an RS?

Matt O.

Tifo, thanks for the response--I'm glad you did because a thread of yours came up in a google search from pelican. Did you ever finish your project?

I'll probably go with an 85.5-86. Fuchs are a definite must.

Cole

I had read somewhere that in the effort to bring the 951 to market they realized that the chassis needed *upgrading* to handle the extra power and handling they were intending for the car. This is the main reason why 1985.5 cars are different. They all share the "turbo" version of the chassis.

ritzblitz

Thats sort of what this thread is trying to figure out.

In order to use an RS badge, a car must be pure and rid of all things stupid. The only focus should be on going fast.

jamesjedi

I have been building something loosely based on the early 911 race cars. I have always loved the 911ST. I have been getting rid of as much weight as I can. I also have 15x8 Fuchs on the front, and 15x9 Fuchs for the rear. I am very happy with the look. An added feature for this project is that the 944 comes with flares, as well, to build a similar project with an early 911 could cost much more.

944CS

I think it depends on which direction you want to go....are you looking for the retro 70's type of RS, in which case the early interior would suite better, or are you looking for the 90's style RS, in which case the style of the late interior fits more appropriately. All the bare bones options are available for either chassis/interior

roman944

should also mention weights of 944's produced, not sure if I have seen one before or not

schwank

I agree late would probably look cooler when completed, just because the dash is so much nicer. But early would be lightest. That said, just put a full manual rack in a late car... no issues. I like tifo's idea of an 86 with sunroof delete for the best of all worlds.

Run a 88 or 89 motor, manual steering, HVAC delete, Fuchs on aluminum suspension, lexan, and a coilover kit with all monoball and solid bushings. I think 944 Cup prep is pretty pure and close to the type of stuff the factory would have done. Though maybe add a fiberglass hood, or fenders even to make the front lighter.

There is a car in the NW that started as a 8v 87 but is currently a 16v 2.5L, with lots of lightweight bits and 17" racing wheels. It's a beast as the light weight and increased power make it competitive with the E36's instead of just the E30's.

catamax944

If you look back into porsche history all RS's also had an engine to mach. If you use the 8v 944 engine it would be like porsche using a 911T engine in the Carrera RS , not quite an RS anymore is it ? In that case i would classify it as a CS and not an RS . RS is only the very best of any naturally aspirated series. Here's how i see the RS , '86 sunroof delete body ,fuchs , S2/turbo front end (maybe?) , fiberglass front end ,lexan windows ,bare minimum interior with carpet (and rs style door panels in porsche script fabric and 968CS style seats in porsche script fabric) , manual mirrors and windows ,kw v3 suspension and solid bushings , 944S2 LSD transmission ,manual steering rack , 944S2 or 968 engine , small roll cage.

tifosiman

Hey Matt,

Mine is more like a "CS" concept like the 968CS and the 911CS (the late interior goes well with the same time period). Few engine mods, but lighter weight and beefed up suspension/brakes, and not much in the way of electric do-dads.

I'll need to take some recent photos.

Here is a list of most of the lighter weight mods, done with almost all factory parts:

A/C delete (including the non-A/C control unit from a 968CS)
Manual steering rack
No cruise control (car came this way from the factory)
Rear wiper delete (car came this way from the factory)
Manual hatch release (ala the 968CCS)
Manual 968CS mirrors
951 front end (is actually lighter than the honking over-built 944N/A bumper/valance set-up)
Brake ducts in place of the fog lights
Euro rear fiberglass 944 bumper
Fiberglass repro 968 rear wing (about a wash with the stock 944 wing but I liked the looks)
Rear seat delete (although I am putting a 968cab shelf in much like what was done in the 911RS so a little weight is being put back in)
Corbeau fixed back seats (manual slider on drivers side, fixed to the floor on passenger side)
Door pockets deleted
Sound deadening gone
No washer fluid pump or reservoir
930S steering wheel (OK, that was for looks. It looks like the wheel in the 968CS cars)
951 8x16 Fuchs on the front, 930 9x16 Fuchs on the rear in Guards Red

Things that added back in weight:
928S4 calipers on the front
951 rear calipers
968CS front and rear sways
951 black plastic factory side skirts
Welded in TurboCup strut bar
Rennline roll bar

Higher springrates and coil-overs were about a wash on weight

I've got the factory parts for manual windows but haven't completed that yet.

I'm certain there is a lot more that I've forgotten but you get the basics of it.

I've recently added the huge black "Club Sport" decal to the sides of the car like on the 911CS and 968CS cars. Purists might hate that but so what.

Jeremy

tifosiman

I'll add a little bit to my purist comment above.

People on the 944 forums tend to get their painties in a wad about modding cars to be something the factory didn't actually do, like RS or CS versions for example. Or replicas of cars that the factory did do.

What's ironic about that is that the 911 guys have been doing this for years and even have a very active club dedicated to it: R Gruppe

Check out some of the photos from a club get-together here:

http://www.tremotorsports.com/gallery.cfm?Node=10304

No one in that group has any issues with someone taking a late 80's Carrera and backdating it to be like a 73RS or even just modding a car in the "style" or idea of an RS, R, etc.

I like what they are doing a lot.

Matt O.

tifo, please post some pics. You've pretty much done exactly what I want to do... CS, RS, I just want to make an NA 944 as light as possible, down to the RS American style door "stops" and crank windows. And keeping the NA motor stock so as to still run in the stock auto-x class.

I have 16x8/9 sitting in my attack, restored by Harvey Weidman... trying to decide if I want to fit them to my '88 951 or save them for a CS/RS project. Obviously, the '88 951 would require some work to make them fit. They are definitely gorgeous though.

Again, I totally agree with your opinions in your posts, and if I had the money I would be one of the dudes buying a 85 911 and turn it into a 73RS. Love the RS America too, although from what I understand it's not quite as "pure" as the RS.

Did you remove any of the interior other than the rear seats?

Matt