Luis de Prat

In 9 years reading Rennlist I have still to find a 'properly modified 951' set up that is as versatile, reliable, and durable as the stock configuration.

The majority go through phases, are constantly being repaired and end up having major engine work done for big HP gains, which I think is not the idea behind this thread.

Perhaps, only I've been enjoying my car in stock form for 9+ years with only regular maintenance. I hope you can say the same when you've had your modded car that long.

whalebird

I have to agree with you Prat. I have seen a few modded(stage 2/3)cars twist third gear right off the shaft. In contrast, I did have a client with a stage 2 951 that lasted for over 200K with proper maintenance, and that car was wicked fast. Only a hot 951 can make you smile like this car could - it would chirp the tires in third gear at 120 mph over every expansion joint in the freeway upon acceleration. Definitly the kind of cat that needed a mile of clear road ahead to take advantage of the power as it would cover ground faster than you can think(and react) - my knees would be shaking after a spirited run in that car. It began to come apart quick after he sold it. A stock, well tuned 951 is a riot to drive and if it were up to me thats pretty much where I would keep it.

manticore33

You really do not like these cars stock, eh? Appreciate your cars for what they are, opposed to what they will be or could be; it is much more relaxing and satisfying to take that approach since you are not continually wanting 'what is next.' I know the drive, I had that bug when I was into DSMs, but opted to just buy better cars instead of modifying them to hell and back. All of your posts have been geared to modify this or that (anti-Fuchs, stock radios, and etc) opposed to taking a more conservative stock approach. No worries, each have their own interests. However in another 10-20 years, a stock or mostly stock car will be the more desirable car.

I know when I've been shopping for 914s, 911s (I hate the 930 look on non-turbos - especially the whale-tale), BMW 2002, e21, e28, and Mercedes 190e-16v, and 951 I've wanted stock. Project and modified cars come with their own sets of problems, hacks, and short cuts; it gets worse as time passes!

I understand the will, desire, and want to build something spectacular, but there is something to truly enjoy a car the way the factory intended (brings you to a moment in time). Kudos to the OP for his dedication to make a truly original car. Honestly, it takes more time, effort, skill, and money to make an exceptional original car opposed to a tricked out street car or racer.

carlege

They are good stock cars but when you can get XX amount more for just a little effort then i think its worth it. IE new chips, upgraded suspension, New wastegate, and Exhaust. More along the lines of Freeing up horsepower then making horsepower.
Fuch people rave about Fuch wheels but they date the car.
Just a few things like aero Mirrors and handles and new rims can update the look of the car so much. Cars are a personal form of expression There is nothing wrong with stock but i just dont see how you can say its take more time effort and skill to make an excetional origional "stock" car when thats basically what everyone started out with. I can see the extreme that some people have taken it too and i think thats what your basing your statement off of . There are tons of unrefined tricked out street cars. but im suggesting things to complement the car not overhaul.

whalebird

Your worried about Fuchs dating a car. Look at the CAR. It screams 80s and at that time, Fuchs had been around for 20 years and proven their worth. An 86 951 with M030 and fuchs is a bad little machine and most of the garden variety mods represent a compramise at best. To each his own, but these cars are falling victom to the stereo and wheel hacks everyday and it's not long before they're being parted out. Our cars occupy the same demograph as a lot of rice, and as long as that's the case the market value of them will remain low, parts will be even more expensive, and fewer people will be willing to work on them. Big kudos to the OP, especially for attaining a verifiable final objective before he ever did a thing to it and moving in a direction conservativly.

manticore33

Maintaining a stock car is more or less equivalent to a modified car with less propensity to break things. At over 20 years of age, stuff naturally breaks on stock or modified cars without regard to the stresses of the car. These costs are fairly comparable, on other items, yes, the stock car will take less to maintain a running order.

Given that, keeping it to OE off-the-show-room floor spec means ponying up the extra 100%-300% part mark-up for an OEM Porsche branded part (for instance on my BMW a OEM BMW box Behr fan clutch $275 dealer; straight from Behr part no BMW sticker $87). Likewise, keeping up with factory zinc coatings, having OEM bolts with correct stampings and colors, etc, etc to make a true 'concourse' car. It takes time, money, and effort to build a car to this caliber. Often modified cars will skip these expensive details or use white box or aftermarket parts since they have a different end goal; performance and functionality not factory accuracy (how many perfectly good OEM seats have been taken out for racing seats? Or switching to cheap racing seats because of 'worn factory seats' since it costs several hundred dollars to just recover one? Carpet dash coverings versus replacing the whole dash?).

These are old cars, nothing wrong with them being dated. Likewise, old stuff is fun! Everything does not have to be new and updated! Part of the charm of an older object is its character and how it originally functioned!

Updated is nice and I really appreciate resto-mod cars, but in my opinion, newer is not always better. Cars can offer timewarp experiences which is sometimes just damn fun. Hence my love of 914s. No power brakes, power windows, steering, AC (dealer add-on), and some come without sway bars! Small engines, slow, yet the noise of that air cooled-4 and sitting on the ground it wonderfully fun and I felt like I was in the 1970's!

whalebird

You have to be careful with OEM parts. Porsche supplied parts from a given manufacturer are often different than the OEM directly from the same manufacturer. Old is cool for most auto enthusiast, but so many people are buying the water-cooled Porsches because it's a Porsche and fail to understand the objective the factory was aiming for and how they achieved it. These cars are not good "lifestyle" cars as so many people want them to be.

choinga

Please elaborate.

manticore33

I've found that frequently looking at 914's. People being like "I've always wanted a Porsche..." meanwhile the car has been converted to carbs, duct tape on the seats, and the body is about to fold in half because of the rust in the longs.

It is the same way with older BMWs and MBs; the status symbol of the decades of yore become doomed to the clueless secondary market owners that do not have the funds or will to fix it. It is a brand symbol to them; somehow they own it, but cannot maintain it (actually, that goes for a lot of cars). Hence why I ended up with an e39 BMW over a vintage one. I saved it from hack-owner-hell. And I look damn good rocking an sweet DOHC 3.0 inline-6 (yes, it is a 5 speed and I could not resist).

whalebird

^^^what he said^^^

LiveFromNY

I find it interesting to hear so many different opinions on the mod vs stock quandry. As much as I have defended the use of aftermarket parts in this thread, I really do agree with the stock argument in principle (at least for this car).

I'm not going the concours route. Not on this car at least. But I'm also not looking to make any major modifications. I'm sure I'll end up with a couple non-oem components here or there. Mostly because of personal taste, sometimes for performance, and maybe once or twice due to convenience or cost. But I'm going to end up very, very close to stock (especially in appearance).

As for the car being dated... well, if it wasn't dated, I wouldn't be doing this. I consider the 951 to be an 80's icon and I love its dated looks the same way I love the dated looks of a '64 Corvette or a '68 Mustang. When I'm driving this car Reagan is President, Carson is the king of late night, and my future's so bright I gotta wear shades.

God bless my dated Fuchs and everything they stand for.

whalebird

God bless my Fuchs.
I love it...they stand for a lot in the Porsche community...hell the car world.
If you study the evolution of Porsche automobiles, The 944 turbo is arguably one of the most highly developed cars they've made. They poured million and millions into developing that car, and then abandoned it for a collection of reasons. There were few compramises made along the way. Porsche was banking on the front engine cars thru the 70s and 80s and considered them the future of the company. They were developing the 944 intensivly.
A 951 is a remarkable balance of performance, reliability, and practicality. Major mods disrupts this balance.

carlege

If your willing to pay the extra 100% -300% for sensors, bolts and other things that "dont matter" then your far beyond the point of reason.
I bought BMW Reference sensors for my car and guess what... there isnt a dimes difference besides the part number and the price. One of many examples that is perfectly acceptable for a concourse car

pontifex4

I'm not sure whether you've mentioned this or not, but I think it might be worth removing the pinstriping.

Great project, by the way.

azbanks

Major mods done correctly do NOT disrupt this balance.
There are lots of well modified 951's out there. The go faster, stop shorter, handle and ride better, and are just as reliable.

The key is to pick your mods carefully.


Typewriters = dead
Betamax = dead
VHS = dead
Yugo = dead
Madonna's talent =dead
Michael Jackson = (alright, maybe I should have left this one off the list)
The 80's are over.

Times change. The 951 can too.