16V Cam Chain Tensioner - Again
01-16-2003, 03:09 PM
#31
Nordschleife Master
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Crackhead944S:
<strong> I replaced the tensioner and both pads, because in an old post I was told you can't get the bottom pad. I found out today you can get it for about 300 bucks.
Mark
'88 944S</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">If they are charging $300 for a bottom pad, they must be taking it off a complete unit and selling the rest to someone else.
I sourced the upper pads in Holland several years ago when they were unavailable anywhere else. I think some garages may have been replacing the poad only and charging for the whole unit, but that's just my cynicism.
My understanding is a failed lower pad is less catastrophic than an upper. When an upper pad breaks, the chain can get caught on the tensioner and break. When the lower fails, the risk isn't as great.
They often fail from age as much as mileage, they get brittle.
I was looking into making them myself, but the cost of making two moulds was way too high for the volume. You need to book the time of a CNC technician and have old moulds you can reuse. I think the cost was at least $2,000. A buddy of mine who's in the business said the material was a Dupont nylon, which is easy to buy today.
Anyhow, I still think the whole issue looks very bad on Porsche. There is no way the entire tensioner needs to be replaced as often as the pads. Maybe the spring, but not the whole unit.
But in the end, I replaced the whole unit, to get both pads. What a rip.
<strong> I replaced the tensioner and both pads, because in an old post I was told you can't get the bottom pad. I found out today you can get it for about 300 bucks.
Mark
'88 944S</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">If they are charging $300 for a bottom pad, they must be taking it off a complete unit and selling the rest to someone else.
I sourced the upper pads in Holland several years ago when they were unavailable anywhere else. I think some garages may have been replacing the poad only and charging for the whole unit, but that's just my cynicism.
My understanding is a failed lower pad is less catastrophic than an upper. When an upper pad breaks, the chain can get caught on the tensioner and break. When the lower fails, the risk isn't as great.
They often fail from age as much as mileage, they get brittle.
I was looking into making them myself, but the cost of making two moulds was way too high for the volume. You need to book the time of a CNC technician and have old moulds you can reuse. I think the cost was at least $2,000. A buddy of mine who's in the business said the material was a Dupont nylon, which is easy to buy today.
Anyhow, I still think the whole issue looks very bad on Porsche. There is no way the entire tensioner needs to be replaced as often as the pads. Maybe the spring, but not the whole unit.
But in the end, I replaced the whole unit, to get both pads. What a rip.
01-16-2003, 05:33 PM
#32
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Guys,
It is a very simple procedure just DON'T drop anything into your head while the cover is off (Don't ask me how I know this). Make sure you plug all the oil galleys with clean rags or something. The total price for Tensioner replacement with all new gaskets, j-tube, bolts and crush washers was less than $280 from Sunset Porsche. It is not a difficult job and is MUCH cheaper than the head work that will be required if the tensioner fails.
I realize money doesn't grow on trees but I really can't understand the mentality behind a "penny wise and dollar foolish" mindset. It is a Porsche, say it with me PORSCHE. If you want a vehicle that is practicle and cost effective buy a Honda or Acura or some other commuter car.
The general consensus on the S2 mail list (typically much more techinical discussions/posts) is to replace the tensioner as Tom Pultz suggested earlier in this post. $280 compared to $2800 or more seems like a good deal to me. Mine has been replaced and now I don't worry about the tensioner failing. My cam sprockets and chain were in really good shape and the sprocket teeth didn't have excessive wear for 95k miles. I wouldn't sweat the cam chain too much unless it shows excessive wear or you have over 130k miles. If so, I would look into replacing it and the cams (sprockets are integral so if the chain needs to be replaced so do the cams). Sorry for the long post.
Max
p.s. - Tom Boeger's website says you need to remove the spark plugs...there is no need to do this. USE A GOOD TORQUE WRENCH WHEN INSTALLING THE TENSIONER AND VALVE COVER BOLTS. You WILL be sorry if you don't. 7 ft-lbs (no more, no less)
It is a very simple procedure just DON'T drop anything into your head while the cover is off (Don't ask me how I know this). Make sure you plug all the oil galleys with clean rags or something. The total price for Tensioner replacement with all new gaskets, j-tube, bolts and crush washers was less than $280 from Sunset Porsche. It is not a difficult job and is MUCH cheaper than the head work that will be required if the tensioner fails.
I realize money doesn't grow on trees but I really can't understand the mentality behind a "penny wise and dollar foolish" mindset. It is a Porsche, say it with me PORSCHE. If you want a vehicle that is practicle and cost effective buy a Honda or Acura or some other commuter car.
The general consensus on the S2 mail list (typically much more techinical discussions/posts) is to replace the tensioner as Tom Pultz suggested earlier in this post. $280 compared to $2800 or more seems like a good deal to me. Mine has been replaced and now I don't worry about the tensioner failing. My cam sprockets and chain were in really good shape and the sprocket teeth didn't have excessive wear for 95k miles. I wouldn't sweat the cam chain too much unless it shows excessive wear or you have over 130k miles. If so, I would look into replacing it and the cams (sprockets are integral so if the chain needs to be replaced so do the cams). Sorry for the long post.
Max
p.s. - Tom Boeger's website says you need to remove the spark plugs...there is no need to do this. USE A GOOD TORQUE WRENCH WHEN INSTALLING THE TENSIONER AND VALVE COVER BOLTS. You WILL be sorry if you don't. 7 ft-lbs (no more, no less)
01-16-2003, 05:58 PM
#33
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Tom....
My timing belt sheared teeth. It was either too loose or I had a roller seize or something. It didn't actually break. It had to be cut off.
The mechanic said all the cam teeth looked great and the cams showed no wear at all - he was very impresssed. I replaced the chain during the re-build under the recommendation of Markus Blazak. I also did the top pad. My mechanic said the J-tube and all the rest looked new. The bottom pad did (and still does) have a small groove in it.
The head was off my car at some point in the past, so perhaps the tensioner went in the past and I have a newer one in there now? It was purdy shiney!! I'll be replacing it this summer by myself, just incase.
944S Boyeee
My timing belt sheared teeth. It was either too loose or I had a roller seize or something. It didn't actually break. It had to be cut off.
The mechanic said all the cam teeth looked great and the cams showed no wear at all - he was very impresssed. I replaced the chain during the re-build under the recommendation of Markus Blazak. I also did the top pad. My mechanic said the J-tube and all the rest looked new. The bottom pad did (and still does) have a small groove in it.
The head was off my car at some point in the past, so perhaps the tensioner went in the past and I have a newer one in there now? It was purdy shiney!! I'll be replacing it this summer by myself, just incase.
944S Boyeee
01-16-2003, 06:18 PM
#34
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Boyee,
You read the board a lot too.
Other than Mica's friend, who lost their head because of the tensioner?
Max,
I dont think its a penny wise pound foolish situation. I think it's more like overkill. If nobody had a problem in over 130k miles with the tensioner then why change it. I know it's a porsche, I also know of a lot of other places to spend $250 (my wife knows even more places to spend the $$$).
I'm with Mica's mechanic Farmer about it being a time bomb, but I think changing the pad is enough for normal driving. Of course everything posted in this thread is out the window if the car is competitively tracked.
You read the board a lot too.
Other than Mica's friend, who lost their head because of the tensioner?
Max,
I dont think its a penny wise pound foolish situation. I think it's more like overkill. If nobody had a problem in over 130k miles with the tensioner then why change it. I know it's a porsche, I also know of a lot of other places to spend $250 (my wife knows even more places to spend the $$$).
I'm with Mica's mechanic Farmer about it being a time bomb, but I think changing the pad is enough for normal driving. Of course everything posted in this thread is out the window if the car is competitively tracked.
01-16-2003, 09:10 PM
#35
Three Wheelin'
I'm with Mica's mechanic Farmer about it being a time bomb, but I think changing the pad is enough for normal driving. Of course everything posted in this thread is out the window if the car is competitively tracked.
This makes sense to me too; I think Mr. Farmer is simply coming from the viewpoint of a factory-trained tech in that for him, it's better to hedge your bets and remove all possibility of a repair not taking care of any other potential probs.
Max, your statements make a lot of sense too.
Great thread, Tom... loads of good information coming in - I'm still trying to digest it all.
Micah
This makes sense to me too; I think Mr. Farmer is simply coming from the viewpoint of a factory-trained tech in that for him, it's better to hedge your bets and remove all possibility of a repair not taking care of any other potential probs.
Max, your statements make a lot of sense too.
Great thread, Tom... loads of good information coming in - I'm still trying to digest it all.
Micah
01-17-2003, 03:22 AM
#36
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im just gonna hold my breath till 90k and then blow the $280 on the pads/tensioner
man owning a porsche is so fun! holding your breath while you drive around! ("maybe the valves will smash into the piston around this turn".. "maybe my tensioner will go up this hill") yea.. no one will ever understand the joys of a 944
man owning a porsche is so fun! holding your breath while you drive around! ("maybe the valves will smash into the piston around this turn".. "maybe my tensioner will go up this hill") yea.. no one will ever understand the joys of a 944
01-17-2003, 01:18 PM
#37
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I heard a theory that Porsche has a mistake in their pricing for the lower ramp pad, and simply will not fix it. (After dealing with the parts guys at some dealers, I can understand that!). Furthermore, I have what may be the ugliest chain tensioner that failed to fail on me. On my old tensioner, the chain had gone through both the upper and lower pads. It was in the process of running grooves into the metal! I will have to get some digicam pics of it and post them on my website, with the chewed camshafts 
.
-Robert D.
Makes for a great 300 dollar paperweight.
On my old tensioner, the chain had gone through both the upper and lower pads. It was in the process of running grooves into the metal! I will have to get some digicam pics of it and post them on my website, with the chewed camshafts .-Robert D.
Makes for a great 300 dollar paperweight.
