billthe3

Yes, I did heat the heat shrink when putting that over the line, but I don't see how that could be an issue. The heat gun only got up to maybe 150F, while the brake lines get how hot under intense braking? Hot enough to boil the fluid. I would assume that they would be able to tolerate the heat of the heat gun since they are made to for braking and sitting in the rear of the car by the exhaust and tranny and whatnot.

I have a feeling the line is a defect because the other three seem to be in normal condition. I'll try cutting the heat shrink back and seeing what the crap on the line looks like.

75ohm

Not sure about you guys, but I stopped after step one after reading the warning label here...

DDP

Bill,
I've got two new rear SS lines from Paragon, the same one's you installed on your car. I'm not going to be using them. You can have them for the price of shipping you want. PM me.

jaje

Whoa!...You are big time misreading my comments. SS lines are much better than rubber lines when it comes to maintain pressure (rubber lines bulge...but they are rubber and can do this). My comment was around not properly caring for SS lines such as stressing them by bending them while installing.

Then there's always the cheaply made ones. Fact is if the ss outside lining breaks...the inside is nylon and can pop. I've had this happen and talked to other racers so that is why racers inspect their brakes / cars often. And I figure why most people feel that ss lines on teh street aren't really needed.

Mike C.

The brake calipers can get up to brake fluid boiling temperatures but I suspect the rubber hoses do not (one would hope). And the front brakes are much more likely to get to that point....

Travis - sflraver

It looks like the line itself may have had a leak and the fluid is being held in place now by only the outer plastic covering. Can't tell much from the picture but that's what it looks like. I would just run a razor knife across the outer plastic cover and see if fluid comes out if you want start eliminating / determining possible modes of failure tonight.

jeeper31

What are the symptoms fo a failing brake line?

951Tom

Jepper, a failing line usually results in total loss of braking. If you are lucky, the pedal will get spongy and you'll still be able to stop. I have the Paragon s/s lines too since May 2005 & 8K miles without any problems. I didn't use a heat gun or anything. Screwed both ends on and tighened while counter-holding.

Do everyone elses front brake lines rub against the control arm?

Mike C.

"Do everyone elses front brake lines rub against the control arm?" No. Not good.

Our cars all have dual master cylinders which means the front and rear braking systems are separate. So you will not have a total fluid loss if a hose lets go on one corner of the car. However, the front brakes do the majority of the work (heat dissipation via friction) so it may feel like you have no brakes if you lose the front, especially at the track... Rear brake loss would not be as dramatic.

billthe3

^ Really? It sure doesn't look like there are two master cylinders in the brake system...

Mike C.

It has two pistons in line .... the concept has been on production cars since the late 60's.....

jaje

Are these cross pattern? I'd hope that the fronts are not completely separate from the rears. I know my '89 Civic has the Right Front and Left Rear (I'd hope my '89 S2 does the same) on the same systems and Left Front and the Right Rear so that if one line fails you will always have a braking wheel in the front and opposite sides to slow the car rather than only fronts or only rears. Imagine the issue if the fronts fail and only the rears work and you find this out in a nice fast sweeper with a big ditch.

Oddjob

Front system is separate from the rear. Two pistons in the MC, one for the front two caliper lines, and one for the combined rear brake line - which then splits to the two rear calipers by the passenger rear seat footwell.

If you have a brake system failure you are going to have problems stopping the car regardless of how the front/rear systems are split. If the system is split diagonally, the car would pull madly to the side of the working caliper, causing extreme instability under hard braking.

If you do split or break a brake line, you will have fluid everywhere - it wont just dribble out. Brake line pressure during a hard stop is in the range of 50-100 bar (725-1450 psi). If you have a piston seal in a brake caliper may leak or weep, but a brake line wont. If the brake line connection is not completely tight, you might get some seeping too - but even finger tight will show up as a major fluid leak.

jaje

I've actually had a ss line fail while on a hot lap. It didn't reallly present itself until Turn 10 at Summit Point (that corner is a light tap and major throttle to turn the car as it leads onto the longest straight - which also goes up a big hill). I think I had a rock come up and chipped my right front SS line and it finally allowed the inner nylon tube to break through and pop. I was driving a heavily modified Protege5 with a prototype turbo kit on it (~225whp) and a wilwood 4 piston calipers on all 4 wheels. The brake system was the cross directional pattern and what I found was that the car was unstable (as would happen with any brake failure) but I was able to compensate with steering and get the car slowed enough so that I could rotate the car to scrub speed and was able to get it slowed enough so that I didn't have to enter the gravel trap.

My impression was if the fronts failed and I only had rear brakes I would have been much worse off as I'd lose basically all brake power (it would be like hitting the rear parking brake only to stop a car entering a corner) as the car would instanteously spin into the gravel trap and maybe all the way into the wall. In one instance having the fronts seperate from the rears so long as you are stopping in a straight line....but I'd still want the cross pattern as it would be slightly unstable with the pull from the one front that was no longer working but it would be more controllable in most situations.

Mike C.

I think Volvo has used the diagonal system for some time now. I'm glad I never had it happen because it must be really frightening losing your front brakes at the track...