TeufelHei

Hello to all my little brothers here in the 944 side of the house.

I came across a 1990 944 S2 Cabriolet while at the gym and am looking for some advice on how to procede.

Here's the back story. I just bought my second 928 (the '85 S2) and am in a bind as to what to do with the first. In an ideal world, I would refurbish it and pass it on to the wife. However, the state of things is that the project will cost a great deal and ultimately leave me with a very nice '81 that I would be reluctant to give over. The more I think about it, the more "track beast" keeps creeping in. The other thing is that it's a 5-speed and my wife doesn't like the 'manly' clutch action while driving it.

The 944 is a 5-speed Cabriolet in good condition. 125k on the odometer, black interior (nice), white paint (original with some chips), top is in great shape, negligible rust (it was a PA car), and mostly original throughout. I'd have to go over it a little better and talk to the guy for more info, but it looks good enough to consider. The guy wants $10,500. At a glance I wouldn't go more than $10,000 and that's pushing it. Advice?

Dave

Rust is a deal killer for me, a 944 should never show any rust unless it's been damaged. That and the price is way too low unless it's a salvage title.
Maintanence up to date? PPI? I'll bet a PPI turns up a hit sometime in the past.

TeufelHei

By negligible, I mean non-existent underneath save for some minor (salt related) on the exhaust exterior. Other than that, there is some on the top's screwheads, but that's all I saw.

Luis de Prat

I know these cars aren't too common out your way. When I had my S2 cab for sale in Florida, I got several inquiries from your area, so it's hard to say whether you should "keep looking."

But initially, I would side with Dave in that if any rust is present and you think this is going to be a "project" car you should hold out for a better example. The cabriolet specific parts are not cheap by any means. We just replaced the convertible top seals in the S2 and it was over $1K in parts alone.

From how you describe the car, I'd say the ask price is about right, but again, I haven't seen the car. Depending on how much you want it and how badly the fellow wants to sell, I'm sure you could get him down to $9K if you identify the items that will need work.

When I bought my S2 with 118K miles in 1999 they were asking $17,900. The car needed a new top, tires and was due for a timing belt job, so I persevered knowing that most people wouldn't touch it. I ended up getting it for $14,500.

Get us some pics if you can. I've seen quite a few cabs and own 2, so I could probably give you some pointers. It's always important to find a nice example but perhaps more so with the cabs because they tend to deteriorate more easily from neglect or abuse.

Good luck with it, and nice to see some cab enthusiasm in the forum!

P.S. Don't test drive it with the top down, or you will have to buy it!

TeufelHei

I'll call the guy for a test drive and inspection here today, but a few questions come to mind right away.

1. What sort of servicing intervals should I be aware of? (ie timing belts)?
2. What are some common maintenance items for the first few thousand miles?
3. Under normal driving conditions, what sort of fuel/oil consumption should I be looking for?
4. If you were buying it, and you had 24 hours to inspect it, what would you look for?
5. What features does this car come equiped with (standard)?

I don't really factor common wear items in (tires, brake pads, etc) however this car is doing alright all the way around so far as I can see. It's wearing Yokohama AVS rubber on all four corners with Design 90 Wheels. Rotors have not been turned, brakes are unknown.

The owner left the door unlocked (it's on a private sale lot) and I got a good look at the interior. It's undamaged except for the addition of some 4x6" Pioneers in the lower door and some sort of after market stereo. Ugly, but not hard to fix. The leather is nice, the vinyl is good, no cracks in the dash, so far it looks right.

The engine compartment is dirty, with a little oil residue on the outside of the valve cover. Not a major concern, but I would need at least a day of driving to figure that one out. The transaxle is sweating oil, hard to tell the source or the rate at which it's going. Suspension is tight (did the fender bounce check). Exhaust has mild corrosion, but I can see how since they salt the roads in PA.

A few paint chips here and there, but at least he put 3M Stone Guard on. No evidence of a hit, and the paint looks original (as in 14 years old) as well as the hood emblem. The top is black canvas and looks clean except for some wax stains arround the lower lip. The rear window is intact and clear. The passenger side driving light and turn signal are cracked, looks like stone impact as there is no peripheral damage. Window seals are worn, but still intact. Not sure about the top or headlights, but I am assuming they works as advertised.

That's pretty much what I got out of the walk around. I'll post more after talking to the guy and more again after a test drive.

This would be an anniversary present to my wife, so naturally I want it to work out. Any advice is appreciated.

ERAU-944

just a side note here, every exhaust you find on these cars will have some corrosion of one sort or another. it is usually just MINIMAL surface rust. i found awhile back that the pipes on the muffler on 944's are made of stainless. perhaps not a great grade, but VERY durable, i wouldn't even think of replacing exhaust on any 944, unless it was somehow damaged by neglect or abuse, or you wanted a different sound. sounds like a good deal at $10k.

my $.02
-Mike-

BruceWard

It sounds like your wife would like and automatic. If you find a automatic S2 Cab I would expect it to be a few thousand less. On the other hand a 968 Tiptronic Coupe with similar mileage should not be much more.

1. 968 Timing belt is <60K I believe the S2 is <45K, balance belt at same interval with a retension of both at 2 - 2.5K after install.

2. Depending on previous maintenance plugs, air filter, plug wires, cap and rotor, brake pads and how are the shocks?

3. The manual should state an allowable figure. But a quart between changes is allowable on the 968. The oil should not be leaking, it should be burned up.

4. Oil and power steering leaks, wheel bearings, wash and wax looking for all paint issues, remove timing belt covers or at least the middle one and look at the belts, remove drip pans from below engine to check for any drips that have been caught.

5. Perhaps reverse this question, look for the options sticker below the carpet in the trunk to learn what options are fitted.

TeufelHei

Hmmmm...how is the clutch action on the 944? I was referring to the 928 double disk, which can be challenging to those who are vertically disenclined and nonsubstantial (which is my wife at all of 5'1" in heels, with what ammount to really long ankles).

83 TX 944

Hey Tim! How's everything going with the Euro 85?

1. What sort of servicing intervals should I be aware of? (ie timing belts)?
Timing belts should be change around 30k miles or 3 years, some tempt fate and go as many as 45k. You will also want to check the cam chain pads, as these can disentigrate, fall out of place and eat sprockets, snap the chain, or worse, crack the head. At least these are concerns for the S cars.

2. What are some common maintenance items for the first few thousand miles?
That depends on how good/bad of an example this car is. If the belts need to be done, you might as well do the H20 pump, rollers, and seals. The trans fluid changing is pretty straight forward. Check the wheel bearings for play, tie rods, ball joints, bushings, etc..

3. Under normal driving conditions, what sort of fuel/oil consumption should I be looking for?
I'd guess 25 to 30 highway, 20-25 city. Oil consumption is relatively low on the 4 cyl 944's, maybe 1/3 qt. per oil change, or 3k miles. That's just a guess.

4. If you were buying it, and you had 24 hours to inspect it, what would you look for?
See #2
5. What features does this car come equiped with (standard)?
Dual air bags, and abs that I know of. I'm sure there are others that can chime in here with the rest.

Good to see you over here on the shiny side!

Luis de Prat

No such thing.
The S2 cab has the 16V engine, which is like half a 928 engine. The twin cams are held together by a chain supported by an hydraulic tensioner. This tensioner has 2 nylon pads on it that can get brittle with wear and eventually crack, leading to serious head damage. With the amount of miles on this car, it would be wise to take off the cam cover and check the condition of the pads. Replacement of the tensioner is an easy DIY job and they cost around $300 plus another $50 or so for cam cover "resealing" items like gasket, O-rings, grommets, etc.

There is much controversy as to the timing/balance belt interval on these cars, but I would say it's safe to go for 45K mile replacements with periodic checks for proper tension. Do the water pump, rollers, sprockets, etc. when you do the job as preventive maintenance. It would be good to know when the timing/balance belts were last done on this car.

You're going to want to check the typical stuff, like flush the coolant out, fuel filter, air filter, etc. for optimal running condition. The clutch can also be suspect at this mileage and you should ask if it has been replaced.

In my experience with the 944S2 engine, there is no noticeable oil consumption between 3K mile changes. The turbo cab is another story.

I would drive it through some twisted roads to see how the suspension is holding up. The caster block bushings can be worn, as well as the front ball joints, compromising handling significantly. I've seen people test drive cabs and report back how badly they handled when in fact these items can be suspect just like with a coupe. Also, look for rear end sag. The cabs are 140 lbs heavier than the coupes and the rear torsion bars may have given in some. This can be corrected via the rear trailing arm eccentric bolt, but you may need to update the shocks also.

With cabrios, the convertible top is obviously important. Check the plastic window to see if it has a "Rhinoplast" brand on it. In that case, the car still has the original top. If the top has been replaced, poke at the seals with your fingers to see if they're loose. They are very expensive and if one pops out after you buy the car, you're looking at a couple hundred bucks per seal.

The U.S. spec S2 cabs all came standard with A/C, partial leather, dual airbags, ABS brakes, 3rd brake light, Blaupunkt Stuttgart radiocassette receiver, 16" Design 90 alloy wheels, cruise control, and 4-way power seats, to name the major features.

Brakes are incredibly long lasting, if you use the stock Pagid pads. At this mileage, the rotors should still be OK.

Nice leather and no cracks in the dash are a HUGE plus. Congratulations on that.

The leaking cam cover will probably be resolved with a new gasket when you take it off to inspect the cam chain tensioner assembly.

Has this car has been sitting for some time? If so, the sweating should correct itself when you start driving it again. My S2 did that when I put it away for 2 months after a 5K mile road trip. Problem disappeared when it was driven daily again.

How adept is she at driving a manual car? Depending on the condition of the clutch, she should get used to it fairly quickly. I got my 58-year old mother driving it in about 30 minutes.

83 TX 944

The clutch is much softer than the one on your 85, yours was pretty stiff compared to my 944.

TeufelHei

Glad to know I don't have to worry about the clutch. My wife wouldn't drive an automatic unless it was a large vehicle.

Sounds to me like the maintenance issues are about the same as the 928. Not bad at all, and rather convenient.

What sort of material is there out there in the way of DIY manuals? I've got a line on the Chilton's/Hynes stuff but I'd like to get a set (or CD-ROM) of the factory manuals to go with my 928 set.

TeufelHei

Well, the latest is that I talked to the owner. He's an Airforce Doctor who has owned the care a little more than a year. House issues are forcing the sell, in his words "no more fun car."

Bad: He's obviously not the first owner, and is not sure how many there have been (possibly 4). He bought the car from the previous owner in California (still not sure about the PA plates) who used it as a commuter vehicle to drive some 90 miles each way. Doesn't know when the top was replaced, but I told him it was (thanks to Luis' Rhinoplast knowlege). The rear speakers are shot. There is a slow leak from the oil pan gasket.

Good: The clutch is new and the car has been serviced and repaired by the local dealer. He also claims to have all the maintenance records from the prior owners, though this is difficult to confirm since we don't know how many they are. The top is sealed tight, and the seals aren't going anywhere. He has no problem with my in-depth inspection intentions, and is providing me with all documentation today at my request. The stereo was installed by the PO, and is a professional job. The front (4x6) speaker grilles are simply off since one was broken. There's an Amp in the tire compartment, along with the spare tire and all of the original accessories, including the much sought after air pump.

Advice, encouragement, what should I offer?

TeufelHei

Pending the PPI of course

83 TX 944

Tim does the odo still work? I'd check that. On these models the odo, trip gear can break if you reset it while moving, as well as removing a fuse/relay rendering the cruise, and speedo inoperable, thus no recording the racking up of miles. Check the paper work closely for mileage. I wouldn't worry about the motor (unless the chain tensioner pads haven't been changed, and belts) as much as I would the suspension componets. One question that I do not have the answer to is, if the #2 rod bearing issue had been solved by Porsche with the 3.0 ltr engine. Since the oil pan gasket leaks, and I know you don't like leaks, you might suggest to the seller if he would replace it, or discount it off the price. It's a good idea while doing that, to go ahead and do the rod bearings as well.
Lower than the 928 S2, lower Tim.