For those running a square setup, how do you like it? - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

Go Back  Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums > Water Cooled Technical Discussion Areas > 924/931/944/951/968 Forum
Reload this Page >

For those running a square setup, how do you like it?

Notices
924/931/944/951/968 Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

For those running a square setup, how do you like it?

 
Old 02-12-2019, 06:01 AM
  #1  
AkechiMotors
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 198
Default For those running a square setup, how do you like it?

I'm thinking about going 8" all around, and was wondering what to expect. I've read that going square helps address the car's tendency to understeer - is that others' experience? After going to a square setup, are you happy, or are you thinking about going back to a staggered configuration?
AkechiMotors is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 09:22 AM
  #2  
951and944S
Super User
 
951and944S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Orleans/Baton Rouge
Posts: 3,306
Default

Originally Posted by AkechiMotors View Post
I'm thinking about going 8" all around, and was wondering what to expect. I've read that going square helps address the car's tendency to understeer - is that others' experience? After going to a square setup, are you happy, or are you thinking about going back to a staggered configuration?
What you read would be logical, a wider tire up front or narrower tire in rear would combat understeer...., wouldn't be my 1st line of defense but yes, it would.

Early on, we used to run the forged 944TS wheels for their strength and lightness but it didn't take long to switch back to the phone dials.

Being able to rotate tires front to back gives you the ability to move the most abused tire around the car, giving us at least 1.5-2 times peak performance, not to mention more predictable handling, which lessens at track tuning and compensation adjustments. Other than for track bumpiness/smoothness, we never make a handling change at the track with exception to tire pressure.

Unless you have enough power to break the rear end loose (with lsd) on throttle exit to the point that it's slowing you down, 4 x the same wheel/tire is the way to go.
All above comments are on 8V 944 NA SP2 race car,
On the 968, we run same philosophy, but 9.5" wheels with 275/17 on all 4 corners.

T



951and944S is online now  
Old 02-12-2019, 10:35 AM
  #3  
odonnell
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
odonnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 4,603
Default

I have 7J square setup on my street NA. If anything I get oversteer more than anything due to my sway bar setup and coilover settings. It's definitely nice being able to rotate the tires. And I can cheaply find decent tires to suit.
odonnell is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 10:41 AM
  #4  
lamrith
User
 
lamrith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 141
Default

Originally Posted by 951and944S View Post
What you read would be logical, a wider tire up front or narrower tire in rear would combat understeer...., wouldn't be my 1st line of defense but yes, it would.

Early on, we used to run the forged 944TS wheels for their strength and lightness but it didn't take long to switch back to the phone dials.

Being able to rotate tires front to back gives you the ability to move the most abused tire around the car, giving us at least 1.5-2 times peak performance, not to mention more predictable handling, which lessens at track tuning and compensation adjustments. Other than for track bumpiness/smoothness, we never make a handling change at the track with exception to tire pressure.

Unless you have enough power to break the rear end loose (with lsd) on throttle exit to the point that it's slowing you down, 4 x the same wheel/tire is the way to go.
All above comments are on 8V 944 NA SP2 race car,
On the 968, we run same philosophy, but 9.5" wheels with 275/17 on all 4 corners.

T
Good info! SO a follow up, are those stock body cars, or widebody? 275 is quite a bit of rubber and about where I am hoping to go with my car, just did not intend/want to do a widebody kit.
lamrith is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 10:45 AM
  #5  
968to986
User
 
968to986's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 123
Default

I recently went to a square setup with 17x8.5 Boxster rear wheels at all corners with 255/40 R compound tires. I’ve done one time attack and several mountain road drives so far and the car feels great with excellent turn in and lots of grip. Of course I’ve done a multitude of changes over the past year so it’s not like I can speak much to that single change, but I think it’s worth doing, especially if you’re driving skill allows you to push the car really hard. That said, I’m still looking forward to getting a larger adjustable rear sway bar to get the car to rotate even more.
968to986 is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 12:44 PM
  #6  
951and944S
Super User
 
951and944S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Orleans/Baton Rouge
Posts: 3,306
Default

Originally Posted by lamrith View Post
Good info! SO a follow up, are those stock body cars, or widebody? 275 is quite a bit of rubber and about where I am hoping to go with my car, just did not intend/want to do a widebody kit.
1992 968 stock body. They barely clear so we are checking for clearance before racing in this configuration for 1st time week after next.

We have new 275 Z214 C51 Hankook set as well as slightly narrower wheel with new 245 R7 Hoosier mounted to trial and test.

On an NA 8v 944, anything over 245/16 is overkill and probably slower over a lap.

T
951and944S is online now  
Old 02-12-2019, 02:40 PM
  #7  
Dan Martinic
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Dan Martinic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,397
Default

What might be the reason Porsche went with the staggered setup? Was it a marketing thing?
Dan Martinic is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 02:49 PM
  #8  
T&T Racing
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
T&T Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New York & Indiana
Posts: 596
Default

Originally Posted by Dan Martinic View Post
What might be the reason Porsche went with the staggered setup? Was it a marketing thing?
Stagger is more appropriate with turbo engine and a soft rear sway bar to avoid oversteer from apex to corner exit
T&T Racing is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 03:12 PM
  #9  
AkechiMotors
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 198
Default

Great responses so far - thanks!
AkechiMotors is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 04:50 PM
  #10  
951and944S
Super User
 
951and944S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Orleans/Baton Rouge
Posts: 3,306
Default

BTW - I probably have 2 complete sets (7.5 + 9) of the forged Trubo S clubsports in track wheel shape, (painted or powder coated black) if anybody looking for those.

T
951and944S is online now  
Old 02-12-2019, 04:50 PM
  #11  
lamrith
User
 
lamrith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 141
Default

Originally Posted by T&T Racing View Post
Stagger is more appropriate with turbo engine and a soft rear sway bar to avoid oversteer from apex to corner exit
Is it strictly because of the extra power of the turbo, or how the power comes on?

I am building a high horsepower car and want to get a good setup. I like the idea of square for rotation and longevity as this will be a street car. But I also want it to perform and handle as it is being built as a twisty mtn road car.
lamrith is offline  
Old 02-12-2019, 06:29 PM
  #12  
MAGK944
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
MAGK944's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 5,166
Default

Originally Posted by lamrith View Post
Is it strictly because of the extra power of the turbo, or how the power comes on?

I am building a high horsepower car and want to get a good setup. I like the idea of square for rotation and longevity as this will be a street car. But I also want it to perform and handle as it is being built as a twisty mtn road car.
I don’t think staggered wheels is a “power” dependent thing as Porsche also fitted staggered Fuchs wheels on the 944 2.5 na.

Imo you should look at your suspension “setup” taking all aspects into consideration rather than isolating the wheels, there are better ways of inducing under/over steer than fitting wider or narrower wheels. If swapping tires on axles is important to you then you’re stuck with square anyway.
MAGK944 is offline  
Old 02-15-2019, 02:47 AM
  #13  
rlets
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
rlets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 338
Default

Love it! 17x9 with 255/40 NT-01 all around for several years now.
rlets is offline  
Old 02-15-2019, 09:51 AM
  #14  
Jay Wellwood
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
Jay Wellwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hotlanta - NE of the Perimeter
Posts: 11,365
Default

While not an apples to apples comparison, keep in mind Porsche ran a square wheel setup on the 924GTP Lemans, but slightly different tire sizes-

https://www.porsche.com/uk/accessori...p-restoration/

Wheels: BBS rims front and rear: 11.75 x 16
Dunlop Racing, front: 275/600 x16
Dunlop Racing, rear: 300/825 x 16

Not advocating one way or another. Just a data point for consideration.
Jay Wellwood is offline  
Old 02-15-2019, 09:53 AM
  #15  
944crazy
User
 
944crazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 627
Default

Imho the 50/50 weight distribution really lends itself to a square tyre setup. If you are building a high power car then get yourself at least 9" wide wheels all round. Personally I run 265/35r18 semi slicks all round and really like it.... enough rear grip for putting the power down out of corners, and enough front grip to put the big reds to good use while braking. Thinking of moving to some 17 inch slicks for track work this year though.
944crazy is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us About Us Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: