Looking to get into 944 Ownership (Also posted in Model Specific Forum)
01-17-2019, 10:36 PM
#16
Racer
01-18-2019, 01:35 AM
#17
Rennlist Member
You shouldn't have trouble with parts. If the car isn't already equipped with a LSD the rebuild is a good time to install one. The tools are prohibitive (around $4000) unless you plan on specializing in rebuilding Audi transmissions. I had mine re-built for $850 + parts. Check with Dimi at FlyingHorseMotorsports.com (he's on this list) for parts, he knows the transmissions inside out and can supply everything you'll need, he's also on the east coast. If you can find a local speed shop that works on Audi's that might be the best place to take the transaxle.
01-18-2019, 02:09 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
PS: 2nd on the clutch idea, no better time to do it. Depending on mileage and symptoms, you might think about doing the torque tube bearings too. I can recommend the Black Sea Research "Super Bearings". When I did it I also installed a solid transmission mount (Pelican Parts "Super Mount"), a transmission oil cooler (stock ZF from Dimi) and a short shift kit from only944.com. I've been very happy with all of it but I've only got about 500 miles on it.
01-18-2019, 02:21 AM
#19
Leak behind rear wheels that results in damp areas in bins is.....
In the winter time these doors do close much harder than any other car I own, including the Audi 200s and 4000. Both Audi and 944s were built on the same car line in Audi's Neckarsulm factory and use similar hinge location and door checks, so am thinking it has much to do with lubrication and/or placement or sealing of the rubber trim, allowing either dirt or water to enter. I don't use either car lines in the winter, choosing to use an expendable Japanese 4 wheel drive or front wheel drive to endure the snow, ice, and road salts, so don't encounter the situation except to check on them in the garage. They are stiff and heavier feeling..... they do require nearly yearly lubing. I use a dry silicone-grease spray lube and hold a rag around the area so overspray doesn't get on bodywork or interior bits. I also close the doors by the center of the door and by the door handle, not by the top of the door frame. There is a difference in leverage and feel to the closing.
The bodies are fully galvanized steel not stainless ( second series was warranted for 10 years, not the initial 7 years on perforation due to rusting ). There are pockets of concern such as behind the fenders in the rear of those front fenders which collect salt and debris and need fastidious care and cleaning. Sill areas or under the rocker panels where floor pans meet, and rear wheel 'bins' behind the rear wheel, are vulnerable. Often times the rubber one way plugs are missing and thus collects moisture in these areas and rust starts easily. If they are left dirty or full of trash and debris. One car I looked at and passed on had a blanket wrapped around the cardboard box and air compressor and everything was soaked in water. Rust was bleeding from the area around wheel well seams. Total negligence had ruined that part of the car and the very hard to find air pump.
The bodies are fully galvanized steel not stainless ( second series was warranted for 10 years, not the initial 7 years on perforation due to rusting ). There are pockets of concern such as behind the fenders in the rear of those front fenders which collect salt and debris and need fastidious care and cleaning. Sill areas or under the rocker panels where floor pans meet, and rear wheel 'bins' behind the rear wheel, are vulnerable. Often times the rubber one way plugs are missing and thus collects moisture in these areas and rust starts easily. If they are left dirty or full of trash and debris. One car I looked at and passed on had a blanket wrapped around the cardboard box and air compressor and everything was soaked in water. Rust was bleeding from the area around wheel well seams. Total negligence had ruined that part of the car and the very hard to find air pump.
01-18-2019, 10:55 AM
#20
Racer
I'm occasionally perplexed by the "engineering" that is put into these cars. The lackadaisical design that I run into-battery tray drainage, quarter panel drainage etc. There's over kill here,under kill there. Porsche meant well I choose to believe but some aspects of the design is what lead to it's down fall. It's enthusiasts like us that keep these beasts on the road. I've been asked, "why a 924S?" Some days I feel that was a good question. Why?
01-18-2019, 03:06 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
I'm occasionally perplexed by the "engineering" that is put into these cars. The lackadaisical design that I run into-battery tray drainage, quarter panel drainage etc. There's over kill here,under kill there. Porsche meant well I choose to believe but some aspects of the design is what lead to it's down fall. It's enthusiasts like us that keep these beasts on the road. I've been asked, "why a 924S?" Some days I feel that was a good question. Why?
The universal solution was to hire Japanese consultants to re-design their production lines. For Porsche, the first attempt at using those techniques were the 924 & etc. The goal was to build a Porsche in a new way and there were problems. Those are the cars we're supporting and they have warts. It's part of the experience and we deal with it. We're supporting what was once the cutting edge of manufacturing and design and not all of it was done right the first time.
01-18-2019, 05:52 PM
#22
Racer
I think it's important to remember what was happening at Porsche when they introduced the 924/944/928. Up until then, the cars were pretty much hand built and Porsche was on the verge of bankruptcy. They couldn't compete with the highly automated production lines developed by Japan. Detroit was in the same spot.
The universal solution was to hire Japanese consultants to re-design their production lines.
The universal solution was to hire Japanese consultants to re-design their production lines.
In the early 80's the DM was extremely weak against the US dollar. They were generating huge cash by selling 944's into the US at MSRP's of low $20K. By the late eighties the currency exchange rate flipped and Porsche was in deep trouble. Enter Toyota who showed them how to design a vehicle for mass production. Hence the Boxster and 996. That set them up for the Cayenne and the rest is $4B/year earnings history.
01-18-2019, 08:42 PM
#24
Track Day
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@jderimig If you didn't read my opening post, I stated that I was a master mechanic for ten years, and while I hung up my wrenches professionally about 6 years ago now I'm not really concerned about the difficulty. It's more so the special tools and the parts availability. Also as promised this purchase was a "two fer", I got the running '86 along with a similar year parts car. The cars are currently not parked at my house so I can't confirm the year of the parts car but it's a similar vintage (updated interior and such). So I guess now my plan is to fix what the runner needs to remain reliable and use it during the more decent months as a "fun" car and, after better understanding it's condition, turn the parts car into a track day car. I have seen a few used transaxels for ~$800 but I'd at least like to try to rebuild the one from the car, with or without the use of the special tools / local shop, before contemplating just buying another one that may or may not be in better better shape.
Otto I have barely looked into LSD's for the 944. Is there something besides the factory unit I should consider? If my dream comes true and I have both a street car and a racecar, I will probably save the LSD for the track car. Also I will look into getting a hold of Dimi, thanks for the lead!
And yes while the trans is out it makes perfect sense to look into the state of the clutch and related components. From what I understand these were originally fitted with rubber centered clutches which, of course, deteriorate over time. The torque tube bearings are another area to look into (I've read the Clark's garage replacement procedure on this actually). Again thanks for the suggestion.
I doubt the trans cooler would be needed on the road car but almost a must on the track car (IF it's deemed worthy of the task). Also I hope you upgraded to solid engine mounts as well. I've heard of some pretty catastrophic results when only one end of your powertrain is solidly mounted (trans case cracking or worse...), but those were stories of more traditional powertrains (trans mounted directly to engine), so perhaps the modest engine power output and any flex in the torque tube would alleviate these concerns.
You shouldn't have trouble with parts. If the car isn't already equipped with a LSD the rebuild is a good time to install one. The tools are prohibitive (around $4000) unless you plan on specializing in rebuilding Audi transmissions. I had mine re-built for $850 + parts. Check with Dimi at FlyingHorseMotorsports.com (he's on this list) for parts, he knows the transmissions inside out and can supply everything you'll need, he's also on the east coast.
PS: 2nd on the clutch idea, no better time to do it. Depending on mileage and symptoms, you might think about doing the torque tube bearings too. I can recommend the Black Sea Research "Super Bearings". When I did it I also installed a solid transmission mount (Pelican Parts "Super Mount"), a transmission oil cooler (stock ZF from Dimi) and a short shift kit from only944.com.
I doubt the trans cooler would be needed on the road car but almost a must on the track car (IF it's deemed worthy of the task). Also I hope you upgraded to solid engine mounts as well. I've heard of some pretty catastrophic results when only one end of your powertrain is solidly mounted (trans case cracking or worse...), but those were stories of more traditional powertrains (trans mounted directly to engine), so perhaps the modest engine power output and any flex in the torque tube would alleviate these concerns.
01-18-2019, 09:09 PM
#25
Racer
@jderimig If you didn't read my opening post, I stated that I was a master mechanic for ten years, and while I hung up my wrenches professionally about 6 years ago now I'm not really concerned about the difficulty. It's more so the special tools and the parts availability. Also as promised this purchase was a "two fer", I got the running '86 along with a similar year parts car. The cars are currently not parked at my house so I can't confirm the year of the parts car but it's a similar vintage (updated interior and such). So I guess now my plan is to fix what the runner needs to remain reliable and use it during the more decent months as a "fun" car and, after better understanding it's condition, turn the parts car into a track day car. I have seen a few used transaxels for ~$800 but I'd at least like to try to rebuild the one from the car, with or without the use of the special tools / local shop, before contemplating just buying another one that may or may not be in better better shape.
01-19-2019, 09:43 AM
#26
Track Day
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@jderimig I wasn't trying to come across as an @$$hole. Just wanted to let you that my mechanical endeavors have extended beyond wrestling with my lawnmower's spark plug 
. As mentioned throughout this post, as the prices of these vehicles have dropped, they have increasingly fell into the hands of people that have no idea what they are getting into or just don't care and drive them into the ground. That being said you're certainly entitled to your opinion and I agree that a trans rebuild, especially a manual transaxle rebuild, has to be the most complicated procedure one can perform on these vehicles. But as a former mechanic (where I didn't specialize in engine or trans but certainly have some experience) and current engineer I guarantee I will 
. So as a paying Rennlist member (still waiting for that sticker ) I hope to share my experiences as well as learn from everyone else's!
. As mentioned throughout this post, as the prices of these vehicles have dropped, they have increasingly fell into the hands of people that have no idea what they are getting into or just don't care and drive them into the ground. That being said you're certainly entitled to your opinion and I agree that a trans rebuild, especially a manual transaxle rebuild, has to be the most complicated procedure one can perform on these vehicles. But as a former mechanic (where I didn't specialize in engine or trans but certainly have some experience) and current engineer I guarantee I will . So as a paying Rennlist member (still waiting for that sticker ) I hope to share my experiences as well as learn from everyone else's!
01-19-2019, 05:26 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
@jderimig If you didn't read my opening post, I stated that I was a master mechanic for ten years, and while I hung up my wrenches professionally about 6 years ago now I'm not really concerned about the difficulty. It's more so the special tools and the parts availability. Also as promised this purchase was a "two fer", I got the running '86 along with a similar year parts car. The cars are currently not parked at my house so I can't confirm the year of the parts car but it's a similar vintage (updated interior and such). So I guess now my plan is to fix what the runner needs to remain reliable and use it during the more decent months as a "fun" car and, after better understanding it's condition, turn the parts car into a track day car. I have seen a few used transaxels for ~$800 but I'd at least like to try to rebuild the one from the car, with or without the use of the special tools / local shop, before contemplating just buying another one that may or may not be in better better shape.
. Your case is very different since the "parts" 944 is a great candidate for a track build.Otto I have barely looked into LSD's for the 944. Is there something besides the factory unit I should consider? If my dream comes true and I have both a street car and a racecar, I will probably save the LSD for the track car. Also I will look into getting a hold of Dimi, thanks for the lead!
And yes while the trans is out it makes perfect sense to look into the state of the clutch and related components. From what I understand these were originally fitted with rubber centered clutches which, of course, deteriorate over time. The torque tube bearings are another area to look into (I've read the Clark's garage replacement procedure on this actually). Again thanks for the suggestion.
I doubt the trans cooler would be needed on the road car but almost a must on the track car (IF it's deemed worthy of the task). Also I hope you upgraded to solid engine mounts as well. I've heard of some pretty catastrophic results when only one end of your powertrain is solidly mounted (trans case cracking or worse...), but those were stories of more traditional powertrains (trans mounted directly to engine), so perhaps the modest engine power output and any flex in the torque tube would alleviate these concerns.
PS: There are lots of different interpretations of solid, semi-solid and liquid engine mounts for these cars so I wanted to be clear on what I mean by semi-solid. The mounts I used are billet aluminum with a fairly hard rubber isolator sandwiched in the middle of the mount. The stock mounts are what most folks call "liquid", they're rubber containers filled with a viscous fluid. Solid mounts are just that; solid metal all the way.
The stock engine mounts are comfortable on the street, very expensive, and last about 2 to 4 years. Don't even consider anything but OEM factory liquid mounts, they're the only ones that last even 2 years. The others are complete junk.
Last edited by Otto Mechanic; 01-19-2019 at 05:51 PM.
01-19-2019, 09:24 PM
#30
Track Day
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@Otto Mechanic So I reached out to Rimi at Flying Horse but it looks like they're either so busy that they are no longer accepting work or they are getting out of the service business. Either way it still sounds like you have provided a solid source for parts (he claims to still sell parts) and could refer me to someone who can service the trans if needed. From their site I learned about a source for used transaxle's for around $250 + $100 shipped (https://www.porsche944usedparts.com/). So if I make a complete mess of mine I at least have a source cheaper than FB Marketplace / List of Craig.
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