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951 Driveline Failure

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Old 09-13-2018, 01:34 PM
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EJZero1
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Default 951 Driveline Failure

Pulling away from a stop light this morning in traffic, so not accelerating aggressively at all. While climbing through 2nd gear, I suddenly lost all drive and heard a grind/whine that corresponded with engine RPM. No ugly crunching or clunking.

Coasted into a parking lot and checked the axles. Both feel tight, and I cannot rotate either independent of the transmission. With the car in 1st gear, I can roll it back and forth with little to no resistance, and just a faint “ticking” coming from under the rear of the car. If I start the car and put it in gear, it gives no hint of trying to move forward as I start releasing the clutch. Just the noise. My next check will be the coupler.

Am I missing any indications of a stripped or otherwise failed axle? Anything else I can check? Hoping it’s not the transaxle itself. Quotes for replacement might indicate a death sentence for this car.

Inputs and suggestions appreciated.


Old 09-13-2018, 01:41 PM
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GPA951s
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Check the connector that couples the TT driveshaft to the input shaft of the trans... I would guess that clicking is the splines on the shaft.
Old 09-13-2018, 03:14 PM
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951and944S
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If the speedo registers speed, in gear with clutch released, it's an axle, could be damaged inside boot.

T
Old 09-13-2018, 04:09 PM
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V2Rocket
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Originally Posted by EJZero1
Hoping it’s not the transaxle itself. Quotes for replacement might indicate a death sentence for this car.
used replacement $500 and an hour or so to change them out...not as bad as you think
Old 09-13-2018, 04:43 PM
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EJZero1
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Originally Posted by 951and944S
If the speedo registers speed, in gear with clutch released, it's an axle, could be damaged inside boot.

T
Interesting diagnostic to know. Unfortunately I didn’t notice as I was trying to wrap my brain around the situation and look for a safe place to coast into.

Originally Posted by V2Rocket
used replacement $500 and an hour or so to change them out...not as bad as you think
$500? Wow, made a quick phone call while I was waiting for the tow truck and got a price of $3K for a used 951 transmission. And an hour or so to change them out? Clearly you’ve not seen me work in my garage!
Old 09-13-2018, 05:04 PM
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V2Rocket
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who TF did you call? LOL
regularly they are in the $400-700 range depending on miles and location.
Old 09-13-2018, 05:15 PM
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Ak951
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I usually sell open diff 951 trans for $350-500 depending on miles and condition. Where are you located?
Old 09-13-2018, 06:10 PM
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EJZero1
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Originally Posted by V2Rocket
who TF did you call? LOL
regularly they are in the $400-700 range depending on miles and location.
LOL! Called my local indy Porsche dude. Great guy who I’ve done a lot of business with. I’m sure there was some type of misunderstanding. Maybe he thought I was looking for a rebuilt trans.

Originally Posted by Ak951
I usually sell open diff 951 trans for $350-500 depending on miles and condition. Where are you located?
Colorado Springs, CO

I want to crawl under and have a look at the coupler before I seriously start looking for a tranny (that just sounds weird...). After doing some reading, it sounds possible that the splines might have stripped out of either end of the coupler. Should be easy enough to see if that’s the case once I can get at it. I can’t imagine how else the coupler could possibly fail...there’s really not that much to it.

At any rate, it’s nice to know a transmission failure does not necessarily render the car dead.

Thanks for the feedback!
Old 09-13-2018, 11:51 PM
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odonnell
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Happened to my own car years ago. Coupler between trans and torque tube skipped splines. No drive in any gear.
Old 09-14-2018, 12:51 AM
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wonder how those things slip...spontaneous bolt failure?
Old 09-14-2018, 09:15 AM
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EJZero1
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Originally Posted by V2Rocket
wonder how those things slip...spontaneous bolt failure?
I’m curious as well. Will be crawling under to have a look tomorrow, if not this afternoon.

Will post updates with with what I find.
Old 09-15-2018, 01:23 PM
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Update...

Crawled under and found potentially good news. Somehow the coupler has slipped back onto the transaxle input shaft far enough to come disconnected from the “driveshaft”. With a pry bar, I was able to move the coupler back onto the driveshaft enough for it to “catch”, at which point I could no longer turn it by hand, so the splines are possibly still good.

My plan is to completely loosen both bolts on the coupler so I can move it fully back and forth and get the best look at the area that I can. If all looks good, I’ll slide the coupler back in place and bolt things back up. Bolts were pretty tight, so they’re soaking in penetrating oil now.

One thing I did note... The “notch”for the bolt on the drive shaft is a bit forward of the hole small round hole in the bell housing. Seems it would be difficult to get at the bolt tthat far forward. Is there any play in the torque tube that would allow that shaft to come rearward if I could somehow manipulate it? I’d like it to come rearward maybe a 1/2 inch or so.

More updates to follow.
Old 09-15-2018, 02:09 PM
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Dan Martinic
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I'm pretty sure I used a universal joint when working on that bolt. I don't think it lines up on-centre. The TT shaft does have a pretty wide groove area at the bellhousing end... but I can't see how you could move the TT rearward save for putting some washers between it and where it bolts on the bellhousing.

I don't think that's a good idea
Old 09-15-2018, 04:10 PM
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odonnell
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If you remove the coupler bolt on the trans side, you can use a pry bar through the inspection hole to gently move the shaft fore/aft.
Old 09-15-2018, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by odonnell
If you remove the coupler bolt on the trans side, you can use a pry bar through the inspection hole to gently move the shaft fore/aft.
Problem is, the coupler has moved so far aft now, I can’t get the Allen socket in it to loosen it. Tried loosening the bolt on the TT end thinking maybe that would loosen things enough for me to slide it forward enough to get at the other bolt, but that rascal is TIGHT!

Anyone please correct me if I’m wrong, but as I understand it, your not supposed to be able to remove the coupler without taking those bolts completely out? So how on earth did mine slide back off the TT shaft with both bolts still in place?

Both bolts still in place with with another dose of penetrating oil, and she’s off the jack stands and pushed back in place for now. Coupler is in the aft position, off the TT shaft. I guess my only course of action next time I have time to get to it is to just crank on that forward bolt til it gives one way or another. If it comes loose I’ll continue with my plan of moving the coupler forward back into place and snugging everything back up. If it snaps? Well, at least it’s already off the TT shaft and I was kinda thinking I’d have to pull the transmission when this whole thing started anyway.

Thoughts?


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