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You are doing good work on this car. Nice to see it getting love because its obviously worth it.
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How'd you get rid of the old fuel in the tank?
Thank you I appreciate the encouragement. I wanted to change the fuel filter so I drained the tank at the same time. I wasn't sure how much old fuel was in the tank but I had some large (~5 gal) bulk chemical containers available. I jacked up the back of the car to be high enough that they could fit under the fuel tank. If you're not familiar with the fuel pump area, there's a short rubber hose (#23 below) coming out of the fuel tank which goes from the strainer (#28) directly into the pump (#20).
I clamped this little hose with some padded vice grips, then loosened the hose clamp on the pump, aimed it into the (fairly wide) opening of the container, and then took off the clamp and let it flow. When the first container was full I clamped the hose again, lined up the next container, and opened it up again. In total there was about 30L (8 gallons) of old gas there. I didn't want to store this stuff for very long so I was planning a trip to the hazardous waste depot, but first just for fun I decided to post it for free on an local buy/sell app. I was completely honest of the origin and age, and to my surprise somebody actually wanted it and took it away the next morning. No idea what they wanted it for but I don't really care; win-win I guess.
I was planning to pull the strainer out and clean or replace it, but the gas flowed very well while I was draining it and I never saw any hint of lacquer or other crud so I decided not to mess with it. So far my fuel pressure is good and no issues there - I'm thinking that the fact the strainer was submerged in gas maybe kept it from getting too nasty.
To be honest I was really nervous about this whole process. I kept imagining spilling gasoline all over my garage, but doing it outside on my driveway wouldn't be much better. In the end it was really easy.
"I was planning to pull the strainer out and clean or replace it, but the gas flowed very well while I was draining it and I never saw any hint of lacquer or other crud so I decided not to mess with it."
If the beast sat for 10 years(?) it's not looking too healthy. Even with an additive to store the car with the gas in the tank the fuel will oxidize and gum up the fuel system (over time) Add H2O, then that means bactieria and all sorts of crud. An 8 valve turbo should have around 2.5 bar of fuel pressure when tested. So the PO must have taken care of that screen for you. The companies that sell gasoline like to claim that gasoline can store indefinitely in a clean container that is sealed tightly. Gas tanks are vented. Old gas is old gas.
If the beast sat for 10 years(?) it's not looking too healthy. Even with an additive to store the car with the gas in the tank the fuel will oxidize and gum up the fuel system (over time) Add H2O, then that means bactieria and all sorts of crud. An 8 valve turbo should have around 2.5 bar of fuel pressure when tested. So the PO must have taken care of that screen for you.
I did confirm the fuel pressure at a healthy 2.5 bar while jumpered and 2 bar at idle, which is healthy per Clark's Garage. When I was changing the fuel filter I noticed the base of the screen looked shinier than the surrounding area so it was likely replaced at some point. Sometimes working on this car feels like archaeology - I keep making "interesting" discoveries of work done by previous owners. Here's a good one; I was bleeding my front brakes when I noticed something odd:
Aside from the missing fender liner, did you catch it? Here's a close-up:
WTF man? This is the 10mm high-pressure fuel line from the pump to the rail. Apparently some PO decided to cut the hard line, then spliced it back together using fuel hose and injector clamps. Luckily it was a clean cut so I was able to redo the splice using a 10mm compression union. I still don't like it (and it can't fit under the hose bracket) but it should be much better.
Anyway this is really just a rant. If it weren't for the history of previous owners I wouldn't own this car so I shouldn't be complaining.
Current ongoing issues:
My odometer doesn't work. I suspect the typical broken gear, but is there anything else I can check before ripping apart the dash? This will delay my passing certification until I get the dash apart, confirm which gear I need, get it on order, and then replace it. I'll replace the very dim dash light bulbs while I'm in there. Is there really any chance I'll need a different gear than the 20x21 on an '86 US 951?
My speedometer was working intermittently. Connection at the impulse sender looks fine. I started cleaning grounds - I got as far as the trunk ground and main battery ground - and that seems to have restored it. Does that make sense? I'll keep an eye on it.
My auxiliary turbocharger water pump isn't running. I traced it to the wrong relay installed - it has a second wiper sprayer relay there for some reason. I'll order the proper one off eBay shortly (951.618.149.00) unless someone here has one for sale.
Stink: the car does run okay but it has a pretty bad exhaust smell. Like wife-comes-running-out-of-the-house-yelling bad. It's just a strong exhaust smell, no visible smoke or other obvious issues, and it improves after warming up, but it is pretty bad. The car idles fairly rough so I'm suspecting that is related (it seems responsive enough as soon as you give it some gas.) I'm getting a kit to redo all the vacuum lines with silicone tubing so hopefully that will help (about half the lines are already done but I'll finish them all) and I'll also reseal the throttle body. The idle control valve looks clearly new so I expect it is fine. Any other things I can check?
I really appreciate and enjoy feedback from people following along so please keep the comments and suggestions coming. Thanks!
I had the head off doing the valves and the exhaust was stashed on the side of the house covered in packing blankets. When I was cleaning it up to install I noticed a stash of seeds falling out of the muffler end. Some little rodent had taken up residence in there. Still smells nasty when I run it. Maybe mouse feces?
Hey Alex89 - my 1990 S2 was also left in a garage for 10 years after some kids took it for a joy ride and killed the clutch (and the prev owner didn't want to spend any $) These are fun project cars, I'm 20 min north of Peterborough. I just got Ontario plates 2 weeks ago after getting the safety cert at Canadian Tire (which was embarassing since I found out after I got there the bloody horn didn't work) Not sure if you've already bought some of the special tools (for removing the balance shaft gears and the belt tensioner tool) but I have those if you want to borrow them.
Hey for your speedo it can be the impulse sender or within the cluster itself. My old car would do the same thing and when I swapped in an NA cluster it works perfectly afterwards, probably a damaged wire or something in the cluster if not the impulse sender at the trans.
For the smell check for exhaust leaks and maybe even consider if the cat has been gutted by previous owners, if so that will create a smell as well. Usually the car is a good amount louder though if gutted.
I had the head off doing the valves and the exhaust was stashed on the side of the house covered in packing blankets. When I was cleaning it up to install I noticed a stash of seeds falling out of the muffler end. Some little rodent had taken up residence in there. Still smells nasty when I run it. Maybe mouse feces?
Good idea, but its more of a strong exhaust smell rather than something rotten or nasty. My wife has a sensitive sense of smell and she can even smell it on my clothes after I run the car for a bit. Like I said it improves after warming up but I'd like to sort it out.
Originally Posted by hrivnakd
Hey Alex89 - my 1990 S2 was also left in a garage for 10 years after some kids took it for a joy ride and killed the clutch (and the prev owner didn't want to spend any $) These are fun project cars, I'm 20 min north of Peterborough. I just got Ontario plates 2 weeks ago after getting the safety cert at Canadian Tire (which was embarassing since I found out after I got there the bloody horn didn't work) Not sure if you've already bought some of the special tools (for removing the balance shaft gears and the belt tensioner tool) but I have those if you want to borrow them.
Cool, good to meet another Ontario 944 owner. I appreciate the offer but did already invest in most of the special tools, though I got them for a pretty good deal used from a fellow rennlister. I've been debating where to take it for the safety as I'd prefer a shop that won't be too **** about details. I'm worried about places that will look for problems to try to make money off me for repairs (which won't happen and will just cause me hassle). Though I'm pretty confident it will pass everything anyway.
Originally Posted by CyCloNe!
Hey for your speedo it can be the impulse sender or within the cluster itself. My old car would do the same thing and when I swapped in an NA cluster it works perfectly afterwards, probably a damaged wire or something in the cluster if not the impulse sender at the trans.
For the smell check for exhaust leaks and maybe even consider if the cat has been gutted by previous owners, if so that will create a smell as well. Usually the car is a good amount louder though if gutted.
I have started the car a couple more times since cleaning the grounds and the speedometer seems fine. I've got the dash ripped apart now though for the odometer so I think I'll clean all the connectors on the gauge cluster before I put it back together. I think there's a couple more grounds in the dash too so I'll also plan to hit those up.
Good point about the cat being possibly gutted, I hadn't thought of that but that is what it smells like. The car has a nice growl - it isn't overly loud - but I have nothing to compare it to. I suppose the only way to tell is pulling the exhaust apart and trying to look through it so I'll save that for the future inevitable transaxle / clutch work.
As mentioned I'm working at the odometer now. Following Clark's Garage I managed to remove the gauge cluster and extract the speedometer/odometer gauge. Sure enough, the internet was right and I need a new odometer gear. I think I probably broke it myself "testing" it by pressing the reset button (d'oh!) The car wasn't moving... but anyway I've got a new one on order. If anyone cares it was the common 20x21 gear.
Like many things on this car, this repair is relatively simple so far but if I didn't have quality documentation and support from fellow owners I'd be completely lost. I have growing respect for people that are restoring more obscure cars on their own, and great appreciation for forums like this one which is part of why I signed up as a paid Rennlist member today. As usual I appreciate all your feedback and comments.
As for the safety inspection - Canadian Tire took about an hour (part of which was a test drive) I think it was about $150. Service Ontario requires it to be done according to the "ministry of transportation form 5" which has a well defined list of things they need to test - I've taken a photo of the back of the form which lists them:
Alex, it's great to see things are coming along. The quantity and more specifically the quality of information regarding the care and maintenance of these cars is truly outstanding. I credit it in no small part to the reason I am still driving and enjoying this car 14 years later.
Update - my 951 is on the road! Well sort of...
I finished fixing the odometer using a new gear from Paragon and reassembled everything. Also cleaned off the old reflective coating on the "light tunnels" and covered them with aluminum foil tape to improve brightness. Reassembled and once the cluster was plugged in correctly everything worked great again!
I got new tires on the car and temporary plates and was finally able to take it for its first real drive. Everything went well! The car pulls good (I'm afraid my clean driving record won't last), steering and suspension are solid, no rattles or other bad noises. Once it was fully warmed up it had a pretty bad oil leak near the back of the engine on the passenger side. I couldn't find the source so took a chance and replaced the cork gasket on the cam tower and that seemed to fix it. Nobody told me how tight it would be to get tools in there to swap that gasket on the 951 compared to an NA. Surprisingly one of the most infuriating jobs I've done on the car so far. With that sorted I took the car to a local mechanic and it passed the safety certification without any issue. So I'm fully legal and registered!
Of course the next time I drove the car it made a loud and jarring noise from the back end. This only happens around 50mph, I didn't hear anything when cruising above or below that. It sounds like tire rub, very sudden and harsh, and only lasting a split second, but I couldn't find any pattern to cause it. It doesn't seem related to bumps in the road, turning, accelerating, braking, etc. Just comes briefly when cruising around 50mph, maybe once every 10 seconds to a couple minutes. I pulled over and couldn't see anything rubbing or dragging. I didn't want to call for a tow so I limped the car home on the shoulder of the road going 20mph with hazard flashers on. It was pretty sad, but probably a fair initiation to driving a 944.
I put the car on jack stands tonight and took a look. Couldn't find anything rubbing, binding or loose. So I decided to try running it in gear on the stands and took some video:
Basically it is making a ticking / rattling noise from the back end at any speed. Its much worse than I noticed when driving it, but not as loud. I heard the same "rubbing" noise again when I revved it up briefly but didn't catch that on video. My first thought when I hear "ticking" is CV joints. To be honest I haven't given the CVs any attention at all as the boots are in good shape. Is there a way to test them without completely disassembling them? I suppose I should probably regrease them anyway as maintenance. The transaxle has fresh Amsoil 75W-90 Synthetic Gear Lube in it and shifts fine. Wheel bearings seem okay. Anything else I can look at that might be responsible? I'd love to be able to drive the car again next week before storing it for the winter.
As always I'd appreciate any feedback or guidance. Thanks!
Update on my 951 project – I've hit a rather devastating setback. Troubleshooting that noise from the rear end, I thought it might be CV or wheel bearing related so I dropped both axles, but the noise remained. I checked the gear lube level and it was full, so I drained it into a clean container and this was the result:
Lots of glittery metal bits in the oil, some are magnetic but there’s probably brass in there too. I think I can conclude some kind of internal transmission failure. Remember I just replaced the oil this summer and it only had about 50 gentle miles on it. It was Amsoil Long Life Synthetic Gear Lube (API GL-5 & MT-1), apparently safe for brass synchros. Everything I read suggests it should have been fine for the application, overkill if anything.
I’m at a loss of what happened. I drove like a granny – no hard launches, burnouts etc. The original fluid I drained was clear and looked like new, and my first 40 miles driving were trouble free, so I believe the damage is recent.
I’m still figuring out what my next steps will be. I went ahead and dropped the transmission this week, which wasn’t a bad job once I’d found all the bolts (thanks Ben).
I’ll probably pull the differential cover off to check the differential and pinion / ring gear. If they look okay I will get a quote on a full transmission rebuild. Alternatively I can buy a used transmission and swap it in, but sourcing one is tricky. Mine has LSD which I’d obviously prefer to keep if possible. Lart and other dismantlers can supply one, but shipping, converting Canadian dollars plus import taxes raises adds an almost 50% premium. I haven’t found any local options for reasonable prices either – guys want top dollars for 120K+ mile transmissions with no warranties. If anyone here has a 951 transmission they want to sell (open or LSD) please send me a PM.
Regardless, before I spend any more big money, I need to quit procrastinating and do a compression test to see how healthy the engine is (180K miles). I already know the turbo is sloppy and needs a rebuild. The torque tube bearings rattle a bit. No clue on the clutch condition. Basically there is an endless list of “sub-projects” remaining which I don’t mind knocking off one by one, but if I discover that the engine is also on its last legs it may be time to rethink this project with my budget and overall expectations.
At least she's still pretty on jack stands. Thoughts and comments are welcome as always.
09-21-2018, 01:35 PM
