Audi sealant for crank girdle sealant
03-20-2018, 12:36 AM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Audi sealant for crank girdle sealant
Hello all,
I am about to start assembling my machined engine and have a question about an alternative to the loctite 574 for the girdle. I have used the vw/Audi sealant d154103a1 on many audi engine rebuilds in the past. It is a green anaerobic sealant used to seal the aluminum to aluminum camshaft girdle on the newer engines and seemed a good choice to use in a similar crankcase application like the 944 crank girdle application. I am interested as I have multiple tubes of this in my toolbox already and know it to be a good product. Any reason this would not work or the loctite would be superior to it in this application? I am also planning to use it on the balance shaft reseal as well.
https://goo.gl/images/yso9Q3
I am about to start assembling my machined engine and have a question about an alternative to the loctite 574 for the girdle. I have used the vw/Audi sealant d154103a1 on many audi engine rebuilds in the past. It is a green anaerobic sealant used to seal the aluminum to aluminum camshaft girdle on the newer engines and seemed a good choice to use in a similar crankcase application like the 944 crank girdle application. I am interested as I have multiple tubes of this in my toolbox already and know it to be a good product. Any reason this would not work or the loctite would be superior to it in this application? I am also planning to use it on the balance shaft reseal as well.
https://goo.gl/images/yso9Q3
Last edited by steven74; 03-20-2018 at 01:07 AM.
03-20-2018, 08:25 AM
#2
Rennlist Member
I have no idea what the specs are for the Audi sealant. But I do know you can easily discover the specs for the Locktite sealant on their website. I would suggest some key parameters to look at are the maximum gap it is designed to fill, the temperature at which it "breaks down", and, to a much lesser degree, it's bond strength. I will say that bond strength is not really that important in such a highly clamped joint. It would also be nice to know that the sealant that squeezes out from the joint will readily dissolve in the oil that it will be exposed to. And not clump or ball up.
Something we should all keep in mind are the storage temperature requirements for these products. I was a little dismayed to find that the Locktite is not rated for storage in freezing temps or in hot weather. If you have tubes that have been around for a while, stored in an unheated or A/C'd garage, you may have just answered your question.
For the cost of the sealant versus the consequences if it doesn't seal right, I would buy a new tube for every girdle seal job!
FYI, I buy my new product in the spring or the fall, to avoid temperature extremes during shipment, and store it indoors, in my wine fridge
Something we should all keep in mind are the storage temperature requirements for these products. I was a little dismayed to find that the Locktite is not rated for storage in freezing temps or in hot weather. If you have tubes that have been around for a while, stored in an unheated or A/C'd garage, you may have just answered your question.
For the cost of the sealant versus the consequences if it doesn't seal right, I would buy a new tube for every girdle seal job!
FYI, I buy my new product in the spring or the fall, to avoid temperature extremes during shipment, and store it indoors, in my wine fridge
03-20-2018, 05:09 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
If I had to guess I'd say a lot of the other products on the market would probably work fine, or possibly even better. Loctite 574 is pretty old technology now. Permatex has an anerobic sealer on the market that has a lot of good reviews. One very benificial characteristic of it is that it doesn't cure up rock-hard, which is something I never liked about 574.
03-21-2018, 12:00 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
Steven, the green sealant ("573") is for finer gaps than the orange ("574"). I cannot speak to the Audi product in your post, don't know it or its specs.
03-21-2018, 01:11 PM
#5
Race Car
Yep, Kevin correct on that point, the green is for lesser clearance fits.
I think the 574 (from memory) is good for .020-.025".
There are even more products by Loctite that would work for a girdle as far as matching the gap clearance spec as the 574, 515 I think (again from memory) but take note...., all the other products have other specifics, like "curing time" (with and without a primer), gap filling potential and also temperature ranges.
If for instance, you used a product on a diff side cover, you could still keep an eye on it and make a fairly easy repair if the sealant eventually failed.
I'd stick to the 574 on an important, not easily inspectable/serviceable component like the girdle.
T
I think the 574 (from memory) is good for .020-.025".
There are even more products by Loctite that would work for a girdle as far as matching the gap clearance spec as the 574, 515 I think (again from memory) but take note...., all the other products have other specifics, like "curing time" (with and without a primer), gap filling potential and also temperature ranges.
If for instance, you used a product on a diff side cover, you could still keep an eye on it and make a fairly easy repair if the sealant eventually failed.
I'd stick to the 574 on an important, not easily inspectable/serviceable component like the girdle.
T
03-23-2018, 12:53 AM
#6
Instructor
Thread Starter
I spent about two hours yesterday calling our Audi corporate numbers for details on this sealant as well as Henkel/Loctite with out much luck identifying the actual TDS (technical data sheet) to provide the design parameters for this sealant. I feel it is very similar to the Loctite 573 in that it is designed for a minimal clearance application of an aluminum girdle holding down the dual camshafts to an aluminum cylinder head and doesn't require the same shear strength that the 574 would provide on a crankshaft girdle application. The 573 I’d designed to fill a gap of around 0.010” while the 574 should be good for about twice that.
I did however have some interesting questions put to me when I called the contact information number to the MSDS for the sealant and was transferred to the Volkswagen corporate security desk which maintains this information. Not many comedians employed in that position apparently.
Nsummary, I gave it a shot on a slow day and came up without any more concrete information about this sealant, but the people at Loctite are very helpful if ever needed and she suggested the 574 as mentioned and also said the 518 has recently been reformulated and improved for this application. I think for now, I will stick with the 574 because I hope to never see the crank girdle again on this engine. I hope I didn’t just jinx myself.
I did however have some interesting questions put to me when I called the contact information number to the MSDS for the sealant and was transferred to the Volkswagen corporate security desk which maintains this information. Not many comedians employed in that position apparently.
Nsummary, I gave it a shot on a slow day and came up without any more concrete information about this sealant, but the people at Loctite are very helpful if ever needed and she suggested the 574 as mentioned and also said the 518 has recently been reformulated and improved for this application. I think for now, I will stick with the 574 because I hope to never see the crank girdle again on this engine. I hope I didn’t just jinx myself.
03-23-2018, 12:58 AM
#7
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
anaerobic sealant is just to keep the oil from coming out.
but there's nowhere even close to an 0.010" gap between the girdle and block, or the cam caps and 4v head.
FWIW, i just re-did my Subaru engine which came from the factory with $10/ounce anaerobic goo for the cam caps and oil pump...the factory-approved service alternative is permatex ultra grey at $6/tube.
guess which one i used...
but there's nowhere even close to an 0.010" gap between the girdle and block, or the cam caps and 4v head.
FWIW, i just re-did my Subaru engine which came from the factory with $10/ounce anaerobic goo for the cam caps and oil pump...the factory-approved service alternative is permatex ultra grey at $6/tube.
guess which one i used...
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03-23-2018, 01:12 AM
#8
Instructor
Thread Starter
I actually have a tube of Permatex 51813 anaerobic sealant in my toolbox right now. My favorite so far is my Audi “hot bolt paste” and “clutch spline grease”. I like how they make an entire 100mL tube that I have used about 4mL in five years of. I guess that makes it a lifetime supply then? I think I will check at our sister Porsche store about a 50mL tube of 574. If not, Amazon has it as well as ebay.
03-23-2018, 01:56 PM
#13
