WOULD LIKE TO BUY A 944
04-24-2018, 08:09 PM
#166
Nordschleife Master
That was the gist of the article I cited; that ZDDP had been cut in half at some point during the late 90's to meet emissions standards and it also mentions Porsche changed their lubrication requirements at the same time, after which all hell broke loose with the older engines. The author says dealerships and certified shops were essentially forced to the change so as not to void warranties, though I can't understand how a 1989 944 S2 would have been effected by factory warranties in 2000 anyway so that seems a bit silly.
Even so, the article does agree with your observation that ZDDP was reduced in Mobil 1 formulations at that time and there is empirical evidence to support the claim using it causes premature wear. I also use Valvoline Racing 20/50.
Even so, the article does agree with your observation that ZDDP was reduced in Mobil 1 formulations at that time and there is empirical evidence to support the claim using it causes premature wear. I also use Valvoline Racing 20/50.
And other than that, yes. Still
https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us...pecs-guide.pdf
Page 3, 3rd line down.
04-25-2018, 01:00 AM
#167
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Completely agree, Allen.
The uninitiated tend to throw all Mobil 1 under the same bus, without bothering to do the research to understand that all Mobil 1 formulations are not the same.
In fact, Mobil 1 15w50 is not really suitable for any of 'today's engines. Why even bother producing it then? And why does it have the higher ZDDP content than 'modern' Mobil 1?
If the answers aren't already obvious, how about in Exxon-Mobil's own words: "Racing and flat tappet applications."
As for how much P/Zn is adequate, long story short, anything over 1000 on stock valve springs is considered good to go.
Back in the day (pre-1997, category SH and older), before the API began systematically limiting/reducing ZDDP levels, they were typically 1200-1400 ppm in all oils.
That's the oil these engines "grew up on", and any higher concentration than that wasn't necessary then... or now.
Full-blown "race oils" with even-higher ZDDP levels are really only necessary for race engines with high valve spring rates to counteract aggressive cam profiles and higher rpms.
That said, oil is religion, and I don't presume to tell anyone they shouldn't use a race oil or boutique oil. Can't hurt anything other than maybe their wallet.
Here's what I will say: Mobil 1 15w50 is on sale right now at Wally World for $22.88 for a 5-quart jug.
Mobil is also running their Spring rebate (until 5/31), which is $12 off per jug (limit two).
Let's see now, that's 10 quarts of 15w50 full synthetic, with "good ol' days" ZDDP levels, for $21.76 plus tax.
So I'm going to do what I've done every Spring and Fall rebate promotion ever since I found out about them.
'Cause hell, for that kind of expenditure I can afford to change oil more frequently to replenish the ZDDP that is naturally consumed in any oil.
The uninitiated tend to throw all Mobil 1 under the same bus, without bothering to do the research to understand that all Mobil 1 formulations are not the same.
In fact, Mobil 1 15w50 is not really suitable for any of 'today's engines. Why even bother producing it then? And why does it have the higher ZDDP content than 'modern' Mobil 1?
If the answers aren't already obvious, how about in Exxon-Mobil's own words: "Racing and flat tappet applications."
As for how much P/Zn is adequate, long story short, anything over 1000 on stock valve springs is considered good to go.
Back in the day (pre-1997, category SH and older), before the API began systematically limiting/reducing ZDDP levels, they were typically 1200-1400 ppm in all oils.
That's the oil these engines "grew up on", and any higher concentration than that wasn't necessary then... or now.
Full-blown "race oils" with even-higher ZDDP levels are really only necessary for race engines with high valve spring rates to counteract aggressive cam profiles and higher rpms.
That said, oil is religion, and I don't presume to tell anyone they shouldn't use a race oil or boutique oil. Can't hurt anything other than maybe their wallet.
Here's what I will say: Mobil 1 15w50 is on sale right now at Wally World for $22.88 for a 5-quart jug.
Mobil is also running their Spring rebate (until 5/31), which is $12 off per jug (limit two).
Let's see now, that's 10 quarts of 15w50 full synthetic, with "good ol' days" ZDDP levels, for $21.76 plus tax.
So I'm going to do what I've done every Spring and Fall rebate promotion ever since I found out about them.
'Cause hell, for that kind of expenditure I can afford to change oil more frequently to replenish the ZDDP that is naturally consumed in any oil.
04-25-2018, 05:12 PM
#168
Rennlist Member
And I just happen to have 3 cases of Mobil 1 15/50 collecting cobwebs in my shop. Good to know what the real issues are, how they've changed over time, and where everything is now.
Seriously appreciate the discussion, not just because I have $100 worth of oil I can probably use after all. You all have to admit it's a pretty complicated subject?
Seriously appreciate the discussion, not just because I have $100 worth of oil I can probably use after all. You all have to admit it's a pretty complicated subject?
04-27-2018, 03:37 AM
#169
Rennlist Member
Out of curiosity, how does one go about obtaining that $12 rebate per jug from Mobil?
04-27-2018, 06:05 AM
#170
Rennlist Member
What you do is calculate your annual expenditures on fuel and oil. You then calculate the amount (number) of shares you'll need to buy in Exxon-Mobil stock, so as to obtain a dividend in that amount.
You're done.
04-27-2018, 09:11 AM
#171
Rennlist Member
Good one, Otto! Now onto another oil..I've been running Castrol extended and high mileage synthetic 5W-30 in my Toyota Camry (93) for many years. It's a 2.2 L motor, bone stock, for 470+K miles..since the oil article, should I be running some sort of a ZPPD additive as well? I have no idea what kind of zinc is in their oils, nor do I have any info on what kind of oils they require. The engine is a flat tappet engine, twin cam..since it is a '93, probably takes at an SH grade oil...It doesn't use any oil and I change the oil about every 7- 10K with a filter change about 5K..what do you suggest? Thanks in advance,
04-28-2018, 04:42 AM
#172
Rennlist Member
04-28-2018, 04:43 AM
#173
Rennlist Member
04-28-2018, 10:06 PM
#174
Racer
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For anyone who was looking for the Mobil 1 Spring Rebate:
https://mobiloil.com/en/promotion/mo...march-may-2018
What you're after is the "$12 rebate with purchase of five or more quarts (or multiquart-jug equivalent) of any Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil."
You can use it on up to two 5-qt. jugs, or up to 10 1-qt. bottles, so that's a total rebate of $24 on 10 quarts.
The rebate is easy to apply for online, just need a scan/photo of your store receipt.
The 'participating retailers' list is not all-inclusive, so even though Wally World isn't listed, they definitely are.
I've done this every Spring and Fall for the past couple of years. Enjoy!
What you're after is the "$12 rebate with purchase of five or more quarts (or multiquart-jug equivalent) of any Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil."
You can use it on up to two 5-qt. jugs, or up to 10 1-qt. bottles, so that's a total rebate of $24 on 10 quarts.
The rebate is easy to apply for online, just need a scan/photo of your store receipt.
The 'participating retailers' list is not all-inclusive, so even though Wally World isn't listed, they definitely are.
I've done this every Spring and Fall for the past couple of years. Enjoy!
05-07-2018, 10:08 PM
#177
Rennlist Member
Congratulations Peter! Looks like you may have been the only 944 there? Quite a distinction I'd think. These cars are becoming more and more rare.
Good read.
05-08-2018, 04:51 PM
#179
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thank you Scott, I was the only one. I think these are very rare lately, when I found this one , there was one other across the US, many CABS, and more Turbo. Happy with this one, she like to stay between 80 and 90 !!!