Otto Mechanic

No major cons. A car that's been built for the track will be superior to a street car as long as the owner/builder knew what he/she was doing. Track cars will almost certainly have upgraded suspension and brake parts included. They may have more engine maintenance than a street car would see. It very much depends on the owner/operator of the car, something you'll need to judge for yourself based on conversation.

Have the rod bearings been replaced recently? That's one of the very first wear items on a 944 engine that's seen track time. There are oil flow issues with the 944 (and the 928 BTW) that make the rod bearings wear quickly when subject to high lateral G forces that may result in oil starvation at the rod bearings. Something to consider.

Other things to look at in a former or current track car are the health of the constant velocity (CV) joints on the rear of the car and the wheel bearings. Honestly, there's a long list of things to be checked, these are only the most obvious. I'd venture that if the rod bearings, rear wheel bearings and CV joints are all in good to excellent condition, the seller has taken good care of the rest of the car also.

Otto Mechanic

BTW, I personally don't favor Recaro seats. I plan to install Sparco seats with removable HALO wings in my car (Sparco ERGO). Recaro is the gold standard for older cars, but head and neck injuries over the past 20 years suggest HALO seats are the way to go. Recaro offer HALO seats but if you want to drive the car to and from the track, the Sparco seats are superior because you can remove the wings for use on the street, allowing a full range of vision you wouldn't need on the track, but do need when driving in the company of groundhogs.

Peter_S03

Blue S2 107.600k re built/paint in 2013 years later clutch // cracked p seat and d seat tear and the frnt pad cracks 9950.00 all 4 tires same size cracked glass fog lamp
Red turbo unmolested 145k sport seats , LSD good clean frt pad cracks couple short 9995,00 ,

I prefer the RED one any opinions are welcomed

Peter_S03

my mistake I think no LSD in the RED

Peter_S03

the red one has the following wrong
AC not working roof will not open and rear wiper not working

Tom R.

What's the quality of the rebuild? You are throwing shyt against the wall to see what sticks. These are not two year old Malibus, or Camrys. They are almost thirty years old. Thirty years of driving in the rain, on the track, to the store while smoking, etc. I pointed out two cars that I found after a quick search. Both looked like they were maintained, and didn't need to be rebuilt. Sport seats are a waste unless you are tracking the car. In fact, if you are not real thin and agile, they are a negative, because the bigger bolster makes it harder to get in, and roll out of the car. LSD isn't much different if it is just a car to knock around in when the weather is nice.

You don't buy the car, you buy the previous owner. Don't compare the car you bought that was a few years old to these thirty year old cars. Yours has Toyota technology, the 944 was designed in the seventies and while some will swear they are the bees knees, they are now old and all will require maintenance. I ran some numbers on the 1983 I linked you that's about an hour from me. Is it worth getting rid of my 2000 Z3 M Roadster? Decided to live with the low mileage, 240 HP concourse winning devil I have instead of a 150 HP unknown devil.

Now the real question, why do you want to cars that serve the same purpose? Screw the badge, they are both expensive to maintain, cramped, low, non utilitarian vehicles that you will use for drives, not to go from point A to B. If you wanted a convertible, that would be different.

Peter_S03

Tom
what you are saying is NO 944 period. Its a hassell !! so I would like a an older car that I can insure with collector co. like my 996. what do you suggest ? under 10k sporty and low to the ground. What about the one in Durham NC dealer red turbo 87 with 147 on odom, but rolled back 84k !! I was going to see it Monday is it worth the 4h drive? 9k asking but sounds rather firm ?

mrgreenjeans

In my own personal grouping of Porsches, I have learned early on to avoid the 'S' model. Much too rev demanding, and high costs and availability of the head, if damage to the stud mounts in the casting break.

My first 944 was ordered out by me new. I have added another half dozen or so NA and turbos into the mix. ALL are sport suspensioned, FUCHS wheel optioned cars, and most have LSD and a good history of prior ownership. My lowest mile car is under 30,000 miles and the highest mileage unit is an NA with around 124,000. By the way, I still own that first 944 and love it dearly. My thoughts are when purchasing the car YOU want, buy the owner and his story just as much as you are buying the car.

The fastest and most brilliant performer in my grouping is an '89 - M030 turbo purchased from it's long term owner. It had meticulous care. I bring these points to the forefront of my own experience with collecting 944s and 951s because I believe these tenets hold true:

A-- Avoid ownership which has had zero care for the car, as in little to no records, obvious uncaring love shown to the exterior and interior. A clean and loved 944 goes a long way towards a fulfilling relationship.

B-- Mileage should be reflective of a good weekend and summer driven car. No road salt use. No outside storage causing clear coat peeling and broken dashes. I passed on a lot of cars to get original paint and interiors. With uncracked dashes. They are out there but the search may be long... but, OH SO worth it !

S2s and 968s are GREAT cars, but finding one is also difficult with proper care, low mileage, and original paint. Obviously, price for really good cars is going to be higher, but I am thinking at this point in our lives, really..... What do we have to lose ?
Bargain 944s are just a problem passed on to the next owner. Patience required, as well as a fat wallet.

My further advice ? Buy what YOU love. Let the car speak to you during the preview and test drive. Note the care issues. Or the 'uncared' for issues and their results on it's presentation.


An NA can be just as fulfilling to own as an S2. Or a turbo. IF you have a heart for the car, you have sought out the BEST match for the money you wish to spend, and if the Porsche you want is free from angst. It's so much easier to stay in love if it has the appeal of your dreams than if you have to make an excuse for things which you are accepting only because they come as extra, unwanted baggage. Kind of like spousal relationships.

BEST wishes with your decisions

black944 turbo

Peter_S03

Thanks to both of you for your remarks !! I prefer no dealer., I am rather impulsive and impatient. It took me 6 month to find my 01 996 C4 near DC 3 1/2 years ago. Wanted white and settled for silver.
There is a Turbo in Az with 145k w some records. issues with roof, AC, rear wiper. ask 9995.00 How much do I need to spend to correct these issues? Have no Idea. and what would be proper offer for the car, I do have to fly there. and have a nice drive home.

Peter_S03

A MECHANIC IN COLUMBIA SC SAID TO STAY AWAY FROM 86 tURBOS , SINCE ITS THEIR 1ST YEAR ANY TRUTH TO THAT AS FAR AS REALIBILTY ? CAN A CAR W/O REAR WIPER BE RE INSTALLED ONE? HOW MUCH TROUBLE IS THAT $$ I LIKE REAR WIPERS WHEN THERE IS SUCH A LARGE GLASS AREA

WHAT ABOUT A 928 IS THAT ANOTHER CAN OF WORMS (: !!

Tom R.

Not no 944 period. No 944 from a dealer without significant records. No 944 with a story. No 944 that has been run hard and put away wet. Let the kids buy those. Read what Greenjeans said. I agree with him, and his most important point is you buy the owner with the car.

These are thirty year old cars, I would skip the dealer unless it is near you. I would also skip a turbo. There is more to go wrong, and the car is a pig until the boost kicks in. I used my 89 Turbo as a DD for a few months. It was miserable because my drive included stop signs or red lights. The Saturn Astra and E36 M3 that replaced the 89 were much nicer to drive on the street.

If you are impulsive, go buy a Subaru BRZ. If you want a convertible, find a Z3 or Z4. There are a lot for the 10K mark, you get airbags, ABS, and a reasonably priced clutch job.

Bottom line is I would look for the cleanest NA within a reasonable distance from a long term private seller. At the Porsche club breakfast yesterday I passed around my phone with the craigslist 83 in CO Springs. All agreed if the car is what the ad says it is, it is the car to buy if one wants a 944, and it is as represented in the ad (price is up to the buyer and seller, we just discussed the merits of the car). 83 doesn't have power steering, and is the purest of the 944 series. That car if original will not lose value if driven a few thousand miles a year. When I showed the ad to my wife she asked why I would want a 35 year old car and the associated babysitting that goes along with it? Get Grenjeans to compare his 83 to the others he owned, not for 0-60, or how many Gs on the skidpad, but smiles per mile. If you want a fast car get a base Civic. It has more power than most 944s. If you want my M Roadster, I will sell it, and look at that 83, drive it a few years, then sell it when the kid in my avatar graduates HS and we move from a house to an apartment.

The S in the other ad I linked has something in common with the 83, and that is long term ownership. That is the key if you want to drive the car. Rule of thumb is the car that is cleaner, and more expensive to get into usually is less $ in the long run. Be impulsive, and you will regret it.

I bought the Z3 because I wanted a combination of my 68 Firebird Convertible and my 99 Miata. I looked at a few before this one. After about two minutes with the seller (receipts for the 11 off 13 years he owned the car), I told my buddy I was screwed because I wasn't leaving without the car. I may have paid say $1,000 more than it was worth, but after six summers, the car has been flawless, and I know the first person that looks at it when I sell it will buy it because it is "that nice". If the cars you are looking at are not "that nice", pass, and let the kids have a bite at those cars. This is the voice of someone who owned over 50 cars in the last 40 years.

This is the 323Ci I bought last month for my daughter as her first car. Not the color she or I wanted, doesn't have the bigger motor, or sport seats I wanted. But, it was being sold by the original owner, no accidents, it never saw snow, and it has original brake pads, with 87k miles, four keys, owners manual, window sticker, a stack of maintenance records from BMW dealers for the last 18 years. I bought the car without seeing it because of what you just read, which is what the owner told me. Can the guy selling the repainted car tell you what color the fenders are under the new paint? How much bondo is under the paint? Will the dealer tell you the 30 year old 944 was never tracked and had regular oil changes even though he doesnt have records? That BMW was worth the flight and 950 mile drive home because it is "that nice".
.
Did you notice I mentioned receipts for both BMWs. The fellow rennlister we bought our 944S from sent me a PM with the list of work done to the car along with his phone number. Then we discussed the transaction, paint issues, and where he thought it was hit in its over 180,000 mile life.
.

Tom R.

After 32 years there is no truth to that. If the rear wiper is your biggest concern, ignore everything I said above. Find the car in the best condition in your price range, and worry about things you will use like air conditioning. Who cares about the rear wiper on a car you will be using on nice days. Besides, the rear wipers put a mark in the rear window. I never used them on my RX-7s or 944s because I didn't want the mark on the glass.

Good luck finding a reference to rear wipers in these FAQ guides on what to look for
http://www.clarks-garage.com/951faq.htm
https://www.porscheclubgb.com/region...4-buyers-guide
http://www.connact.com/~kgross/FAQ/944faq.html
https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...yers_guide.htm
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-...ers-guide/6090
https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hs...o/3693661.html
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/use...orsche-944968/

mrgreenjeans

Tom brought up a point I would like to comment on regarding early cars.

I own every 944 I ever bought to this day. My earliest one is actually an '82 built car with VERY different characteristics than the others, Especially when comparing it to later built series one cars..... the '84s in my group, ( one of which is a sunroof delete, a 'delete special' ).
The July of '82 built car has LSD, Sport Seat Recaros in full leather, FUCHS, no rear wiper, no power steering, and came from the factory with all these options including sport suspension, with upgraded front and rear anti-swaybars. It is an all original 50,000 mile car and one of the first to enter the country to it's first owner living in Colorado Springs, CO. Like most of the first produced cars it is Guards Red with black interior, just like all the advertising promotionals showed them to be.

Because of the lack of power steering, it can be a bit of a handful maneuvering tight spaces, but underway it is a really light and balanced car. Simple, lightweight, elemental, it is a real 'driver's car'. The power is not an overwhelming thing..... it loves to find it's balance in being a throttle induced, momentum car. Loves the twisties. I love this car dearly, BUT I also love even MORE dearly my '89- M030- 951 with 'CUP chip from Porsche', For all the reasons the '82 car lacks. Bagfulls of torque and power down the road. When you hit it hard in the throttle and within the meat of it's power band, it runs hard all the way to 170 and never looks back. There is something to be said for this level of performance. ( excersized with care and caution on a closed course ).

Wisconsin Joe

Alright. I've been reading this as it progresses, and I have a few comments. Some of them may come across as a bit harsh.

You keep asking questions, yet you rarely answer the ones asked of you.

You keep asking "what about THIS one", yet don't seem to put much info about them.

You keep asking about cars at dealers, yet don't seem to understand how much the history and previous ownership of the car matters.

Now you are asking about comments from a random "mechanic in SC" and then about a 928.

First off, the 944 and 928 are completely different cars. The 944 is a sports car. The 928 is a GT. I have both and enjoy them, but they fill different niches in their behaviors.
They are both 30+ years old and have all the issues that accompany owning a car of that age.
Any car that old will require attention on a pretty regular basis. "Reliable" is a relative term, and for these cars is entirely a matter of prior care and maintenance. I wouldn't hesitate to hop in my 928 and go anywhere (took it to California and back in '14). But I know what's been done to it (lots) and what it needs (a couple things, but nothing major). My 944 is a different story. It's been a bit of a headache. It's needed a bunch of stuff for a while, and the reliablity has been "less than stellar" because of that. Since the 928 is mostly caught up, I've taken on the 944 this winter. In Wisconsin, 'good' cars are parked in the winter. That gives me the opportunity to take care of needed work. The 944 is getting rear hubs, MMs and a TB/WP job this winter. I'm also finding some "PO idiocy" and some stuff that is simply old and in need of replacing, also a bit of WYAIT extras. Typical of any project. That will hopefully bring it to the point that I can use it for my weekend travels to the DZ (about 130 miles each way). Neither will ever be 'concours' competitors. That's fine with me. I drive my cars. I enjoy going places in them, and the attention they sometimes get. Best reactions are the kids. More than once, a mom or dad has had to pull on the kid's hand to make them keep up. The kid can't stop looking at the car, even as they are getting dragged off.
The 928 forum is as good as this one when it comes to knowledge and expertise. If a 928 appeals to you, read through the "New Vistior" sticky over there. Real ALL of it.

Sooo...
For either a 944 or a 928:

What do you want in the car?
A project that will keep you busy in the garage as much as driving it?
A daily driver that will see lots of use but will have flaws?
A very nice weekend driver?
A 'concours quality' car that spends most of it's time in the garage being looked at?

What do you want out of the car in the end (could be 5 years, could be 20)?
Drive it until the wheels fall off and part it out in the end?
Drive it, keep it up, sell it to another enthusiast?
Drive it a little, sell it for a profit?
Drive it very little, clean and polish it a lot, sell it to a museum?

How much work can you do?
Full shop including a lift and air? Able to do full engine teardowns and rebuilds?
A couple of rollaways including some specialty stuff? Able to do most major projects (timing belt for example)?
Decent set of tools, but nothing too exoitc? Able to do many projects, but nothing too major?
One tool box? Able to change the oil or a tire?
One adjustable wrench, a pair of channel locks and a couple screwdrivers?

How much money do you want to spend?
A lot?
A whole lot?
Just won the lottery and money isn't an issue?
(note that "not a lot" isn't an option)

The answers to these questions will determine what you should look for in a car.

Note that none of this really matters to me. I'm not the one looking for the car. I have mine.
But I've made a few mistakes, and seen people make more (and worse).

You can avoid them if you choose.