dionphaneuf

Got a 90 S2 a few months back and am about to equip it for a few DE's before the season ends. Here's my planned set up:
- Sparco Evo 2
- BK Sliders and side mounts OR Sparco sliders and mounts. I hear both fit in the car, and both seem to work.
- May start with just the three point belt, but hope to install a 6 point soon. The car came with the BK harness bar and eye bolts in the back seats, so I'll use those for the shoulder straps.

My two big questions:
1. Any of this sound egregiously off? I'm sure I'll have to massage whatever I get to make fit as I want it, but I don't want to be hacking away at brackets for hours only to find I've taken the wrong approach completely.
2. For the two anti submarine belts, should I go through the bottom of the seat to the floor, or through the lap belt holes (ie 'formula style'). I've read some threads saying that the latter set up is not permitted at PCA events, but others say it is fine. It's much easier to set up and remove, but if it substantially compromises safety or will prevent me from being accepted at events it's not worth it.

Getting excited! Any other tips/tricks for a track day n00b (and a 944 S2 track day n00b) would be appreciated.

Otto Mechanic

Have you looked at the Sparco Ergo seats? They have the advantage of a removable HALO system that keeps your head from accidentally coming off in a side impact collision. Your neck was never really built to keep a helmeted head attached to your shoulders in a traumatic collision.

The nice thing about them is they're about the same price and the HALO wings are removable, so you can still drive the car in uncontrolled traffic, always a plus in my opinion .

Joe Bob says: "Check 'em out!"

968workaholic

Seat is all about preference, so what ever is most comfortable for you
Side mounts are all pretty much the same, the mounting width on the bottom seems to be the only difference
As long as the seat sliders are double locking, again either one will work
For the sub belts, go through the hole in the seat and mount them to the floor

The seat mounting holes on the car are 16 inches wide, keep that in mind. When you decide on a seat, look at the specs on it regarding the seat width on the sides where the brackets mount. Depending on how close it is to 16 inches will help you pick the best brackets as far as adjustability goes. When it comes time to put the seat in it will save you a ton of time in "modifying" the brackets to make the seat fit and slide nicely. FYI it will probably take the better part of a day to get it right, aftermarket seats never drop right in. Also if your running with PCA and have an instructor, the restraint systems have to be equal on driver and passenger side

951and944S

PM sent on seat.

Rare thought of tips/tricks,

Start drinking an extra bottle or two of water days before the event. Inside the car is a tough environment and by nature, tracks have little shade so you're standing in direct sunlight, usually on hot asphalt for most of the day, leaning over a hot engine, rotating tires, checking brakes, etc.
It's really easy to get dehydrated and it's too late to crank up the liquid intake the day of the event. With that comes neck pain and what I call a "track headache". It takes away from your concentration.
Self teach yourself to take one quick glance at every corner station. They are your sole source of information. Learn and memorize ALL flags used for the given event.
Don't go in with an "I'm Ayrton Senna" attitude right off the bat. Speed will come with more and more track time.
Give a wave, a thumbs up, an acknowledgement of appreciation on cool down lap to every corner station. The corner workers appreciate it. And while you are going in for a 2 hour break between sessions, they have to stay out there rain or shine.

T

Davito

Check the height!!

I have the same car, sparco evo seat, sparco steel brackets and sliders. I had to get rid of the sliders because I was hitting the roof with the helmet on, I'm only 5'9"

I also recommend you install the harness as is shown on the manufacturer manuals, I have them through the bottom of the seat to the floor

And have fun, great track cars!!

FrenchToast

If, as you say, you are a n00b, what is your reasoning to install hardback seats and harnesses?

Ideally, a hardback seat is used in conjunction with fixed brackets (not sliders) a full cage, five- or six- point harness, padding, driver gear. Substitutions, such as a rollbar (not cage), harness bar, sliders, three point belts, etc. lessen the effectiveness of the setup.

Hardback seats coupled with three point belts is an especially useless setup. If you're looking for better lateral support, get sport seats. If not, it is very difficult to properly route a three point belt in a hardback FIA seat (they are not designed for this). If you look at a 991 GT3 interior with the sport seats, you'll note that besides the provision for harnesses, the seat is designed to use three point belts as well.

In most cases the stock interior is adequate for DE events. The interior is padded along the roof, the three point belts are designed to work with the interior and the seats, the seats are designed to work with an un-caged cabin structure, etc.

Additionally, a cage and harnesses on the street is generally not a good idea. It is actually illegal is some areas.

I would be more concerned with deactivating the airbags for DE. I would also deactivate the ABS, however that is my opinion and others differ.

KevinGross

Download a copy of the SCCA GCRs for guidance on belt location and routing. It is the authority. If in any doubt, work with an experienced local shop to get things safely installed.

Do not deactivate airbags or ABS for DE or any reason. They are safety systems, they are there to protect you, and they will not interfere. Many PCA regions will take issue with deactivating or removing factory safety devices, ie, you'll flunk tech inspection or find your instructor unwilling to sit in your car.

My best advice to you is to skip the seat and belt upgrades for now, just get your butt signed up for an event. You don't need that stuff to get started. Get your car inspected by an experienced local shop as will be required for the event, and fix whatever needs fixing. Go have fun!

dionphaneuf

I had two reasons for the seat:
- Fit, by far the biggest. I'm 6'3", and with a helmet on my head is pushed into the roof. I could open the sunroof a touch, but it doesn't seem like the best idea. A spacer on the steering wheel would maybe allow me to recline the seat more to alleviate this, but I'm not certain.
- Security in the car. I don't have sport seats and while I don't move around like I did in my Miata, I don't feel as well secured as I'd like.

Buying factory sport seats would help with the second but not the first, and costs about the same as a fixed back seat. I may try getting the spacer for the wheel and doing one track day to see if it helps.

Otto Mechanic

I'd like to hear about the seat fitment if you do decide to do that. I'm planning to put in the Sparco Ergo in my car, not because I'm in advanced HPDE, but because I like my head where it is and my stock Sport seats need to be repaired, some of the seams are splitting after 30 years. The Sparco seats also weigh quite a bit less than the electric Sport seats, which is always good. I'm 6'2", 185.

But the car I'm building is really a dedicated track machine. I want to keep it street driveable, but only to and from the tracks I frequent, which are about 100 miles from my shop in Paso Robles (Laguna Seca and Buttonwillow).

Kevin's certainly right about not needing the seats for beginning DE events, but I needed to replace the seats anyway.

Otto Mechanic

That's pretty darned good advice T. Well said,

Davito

For the tall fellas considering sparcos, I ever stops raining in Houston I'll measure the bottom of the seat to the roof distance and try to take pictures of my install. I would also be concerned about the width as I don't have much clearance to the door and the Evo II are bigger than my evo's. Just trying to help before you guys make an investment.

Otto Mechanic

Thanks. I haven't bought seats yet myself, I'm still working on a fuel problem after a drive train/suspension rebuild, but I plan to do it right after I get the car running again.

Hope you guys in Texas get through all this OK. I went through a 7.2 earthquake back in '89, Loma Prieta, recovery can be "interesting"...

Regards,

Davito

I measured the seat to the roof, I have 37" clearance, if the seat is moved back there will be more room as the sunroof recess a little but I like my driving position.

The seat shoulder support to the door is about 3/4" with the door panel removed (1st Picture) check if the EVO II will fit, mine is the standard EVO.








Now I need to paint the interior

dionphaneuf

Awesome, thanks for the pics. I may try jogging mine over to the other side with the L brackets (ie bringing it inboard) if I go through with the seat.

Hope everything is alright with you and your family in Houston and good luck with the car.

Otto Mechanic

You must already know people in Houston breath water? Unless you can prove that, they won't give you a driver's license.

Breath water, or die. That's the Houston creed... They're tough bastards down there.