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The silver bullet-Resto project

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Old 08-31-2016, 05:34 PM
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GazC2
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Default The silver bullet-Resto project

Since I have been pestering the forum with a series of question I thought it might be better to start a thread as an introduction I started my Porsche ownership 25 years ago with a 944 a variety of air cooled 911 and currently have a 997TT. I have always enjoyed working on my cars however the 997 is out of my league so decided to look for a 924 as they are still good value although the market is creeping up.

So I ended up with a late night ebay purchase a 1986 924s with 59000miles been with the same owner since 1989 a lady who lives in Spain most of the year hence the low mileage as it was only used a couple of times a year in the UK so here it is on arrival.


I am amazed at its original condition with no rust all manuals,keys,toolkit sunroof bag etc however not all rosy in the garden initial findings are as follows

Noisey wheel bearing-more below
Car running rich
heavy vibration at Idle ( mounts & balance shaft belt to check)
Suspension has more movement than the wifes tongue
Speedometer not working (since discovered no end on speedo cable at hub)
Rev counter not working
Selection of oil leaks which appear worst around the oil filter and at the dipstick the intention is to pull the engine.

The carpets got a clean up however think I will fit black ones at some point


So made a start to stripping the suspension which will be replaced with a spax rsr coilover kit, as expected one of the wheel bearings was shot the spindle is also badly marked so think this will need replaced ?

The ARB also has a bit of slight wear however this will get refurbed.

So that's progress so far and the plan is refurb suspension/brakes then drop engine to deal with the oil leaks thanks for the help so far no doubt many questions to come

Gaz
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Old 09-04-2016, 03:33 PM
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So got the callipers stripped down and all in good condition so will be blasted/coated then re-sealed its the small things that add up a pin and spring kit is near £50 the spring that holds the cylinder is £25 I am waiting to hear about a couple alternative suppliers.

Also removed the brackets from the ARB which promptly crumbled in front of my eyes so need a couple of them bushings were slightly past their best will be fitting poly anyone know what diameter the bushes are ?

Stripped one of the struts to get the top mount off I could push the damper in with one finger and it stayed put , managed to pick up a brand new spindle/hub for £20 which was a result pity it wasn't for the side that's damaged however have another one on the way so both will be changed.

Also had a look at the interior light switches at the weekend wiring is all fine both switches are tempremental so will try and give them a tickle.

so a bit of progress and parts list getting bigger.
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Old 09-06-2016, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by GazC2 View Post
So got the callipers stripped down and all in good condition so will be blasted/coated then re-sealed its the small things that add up a pin and spring kit is near £50 the spring that holds the cylinder is £25 I am waiting to hear about a couple alternative suppliers.

Also removed the brackets from the ARB which promptly crumbled in front of my eyes so need a couple of them bushings were slightly past their best will be fitting poly anyone know what diameter the bushes are ?

Stripped one of the struts to get the top mount off I could push the damper in with one finger and it stayed put , managed to pick up a brand new spindle/hub for £20 which was a result pity it wasn't for the side that's damaged however have another one on the way so both will be changed.

Also had a look at the interior light switches at the weekend wiring is all fine both switches are tempremental so will try and give them a tickle.

so a bit of progress and parts list getting bigger.

Hi,

Refurbed Calipers with new piston, seals etc are a reasonable cost...

http://brakeparts.co.uk/#!/shop/PORS...el%20cylinders


For road use use genuine Rubber bushes NOT Poly.

Poly bushes do not twist like the rubber, and have any give or absorb vibrations.

Your Front ARB should be 21.5mm ? measure it and bear in mind any rust will of reduced the diameter.

R
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Old 09-06-2016, 04:15 PM
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Thanks for the link Roger on the calipers however once my own ones are painted/re-sealed wont be much in it cost wise.

In regards the poly bushes my thoughts were to put new rubber on the control arm and poly on the arb which I was hoping would be a good balance
This is not going to be a racer just want nice tight front end I am also looking at these coilover kits

Gaz GHA 379 kit
Spax RSR RSX 124

Both are coming in at £550 approx. leaning towards the Spax at the moment.

Now just to throw something else in mix I managed to bag these babies at the weekend which are a set of 7 x17 ET50 which I will fit with 205/50 tyres which gives the same diameter as the 195/65 15 wont know if these are what I wont know if i like the look until I get them on the car however the bigger wheels may be a factor in the harshness of the ride although I am hoping the adjustment on the dampers should give me plenty scope to find the comfy setting.
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Old 09-07-2016, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by GazC2 View Post
Thanks for the link Roger on the calipers however once my own ones are painted/re-sealed wont be much in it cost wise.

In regards the poly bushes my thoughts were to put new rubber on the control arm and poly on the arb which I was hoping would be a good balance
This is not going to be a racer just want nice tight front end I am also looking at these coilover kits

Gaz GHA 379 kit
Spax RSR RSX 124

Both are coming in at £550 approx. leaning towards the Spax at the moment.

Now just to throw something else in mix I managed to bag these babies at the weekend which are a set of 7 x17 ET50 which I will fit with 205/50 tyres which gives the same diameter as the 195/65 15 wont know if these are what I wont know if i like the look until I get them on the car however the bigger wheels may be a factor in the harshness of the ride although I am hoping the adjustment on the dampers should give me plenty scope to find the comfy setting.

Oh dear, it's a tricky and common scenario one this:

If you fit those heavier 17" Wheels and fit a Spax RSX kit with Poly ARB bushes
it will be very very stiff and uncomfortable compared to a total stock car.

This transition seems to be very different for one person to the next,

Some say "it's fine" other would comment it's horrendous myself included.

The GAZ shocks are well solid, you'll possibly regret buying them for road use?

I considered the Spax RSX kit but after doing some research
and getting the spring rates from them, which from memory were around
300 Lbs this is stiff for road use and even more so with my 250KG lighter car.

The wheels will give you "a cosmetic look", but that's all they will handle worst and the car will be slower and have less traction on the road and use more fuel etc..

The Poly ARB bushes may start to squeak and will be so much more rigid and less compliant than the Porsche Rubber ones, this may sound good but on the street it's not always..

If you've never done the whole stiff thing before ? Try it and you'll learn a lot and either love or hate it..
(Stiff Shock, spring, Bigger wheels, smaller tyre profile harder bushes etc..)


A lot also depends on the roads you have, here in North wales they are not race track smooth, but bumpy, lumpy and rough!

If you doing lots of track days the above set up will work very well, as long as you don;t mind the trade off for driving on the road.

Unyet you have mentioned, "this is not going to be a racer"

In which case in my opinion spanning 20+ years ownership and modifying a total of 8 transaxle cars 924's 944's 968, I'd put Bilstein or Koni Road shocks on,
brand new standard springs, and either keep the 15" or go 16" Wheels, and all Rubber bushes...

This Combo the car will be a joy to drive on the public roads, traction and cornering will be great and economy, but all three of these will suffer if you fit stiff shox and those 17" Wheels!

As I've mentioned I did all the stiff set up at 26 years young, now I'm 46 but make no bones about it my 924 2.7 Lightweight is no slouch, or does it handle poorly on rubber bushes, the road shox, soft springs, and skinny lightweight wheels & tyres 205/55/16 ..

It's quite the reverse....without question it's the best handling, reasonably comfortable, best braked, fastest transaxle I've ever driven and owned.
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Old 09-07-2016, 03:19 PM
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Roger

thanks for taking the time to respond, I may have been slightly blinded with what I am trying to do with this car and the suspension set up I sold my 964 C2 a couple of years ago to which I fitted Bilstein B6 and poly bushes throughout in conjunction with a set of 18" wheels thread here if your interested http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=77578 and this totally transformed the car it was nice and firm but not crashy and like you the roads up here are in a dreadfull condition.

All your points are relative in that I am looking for this car to be a nice drive more than anything else I have the 997 to go blasting in so will probably go for rubber rather than poly

In relation to which shocks to go for the reason I was looking at the Gaz and Spax was they come as a new strut and have height adjustment rather than just an insert which appears to be the more common alternative when you look at the cost of getting the struts blasted and painted then pissing about changing the strut the coilover looked an easier option with more flexibility what I haven't considered is how firm the springs are in these kits. In an ideal world a Spax.Bilstein Koni strut with either standard or lowered springs with an adjustable spring perch would be the best solution for me which having another read of your thread is similar to what you are trying to achieve although it does not appear this option is available off the shelf although I think I will drop Spax a line and see if they can fit an alternative spring ?

I have been given a Koni sport (New although been sitting in my mates garage for 15 years) rear shock and new springs along with an rear ARB from a late 924s Le mans which I might use.

In regards the wheels I have picked these up for bargain £130 and are actually BBS which are nice and light as fitted to the 996 so if I either don't like the feel or the look I will go back to plan A which was d90 or the 7" teledials

decision decisions

cheers

Gaz
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Old 09-07-2016, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by GazC2 View Post
Roger

thanks for taking the time to respond, I may have been slightly blinded with what I am trying to do with this car and the suspension set up I sold my 964 C2 a couple of years ago to which I fitted Bilstein B6 and poly bushes throughout in conjunction with a set of 18" wheels thread here if your interested http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=77578 and this totally transformed the car it was nice and firm but not crashy and like you the roads up here are in a dreadfull condition.

All your points are relative in that I am looking for this car to be a nice drive more than anything else I have the 997 to go blasting in so will probably go for rubber rather than poly

In relation to which shocks to go for the reason I was looking at the Gaz and Spax was they come as a new strut and have height adjustment rather than just an insert which appears to be the more common alternative when you look at the cost of getting the struts blasted and painted then pissing about changing the strut the coilover looked an easier option with more flexibility what I haven't considered is how firm the springs are in these kits. In an ideal world a Spax.Bilstein Koni strut with either standard or lowered springs with an adjustable spring perch would be the best solution for me which having another read of your thread is similar to what you are trying to achieve although it does not appear this option is available off the shelf although I think I will drop Spax a line and see if they can fit an alternative spring ?

I have been given a Koni sport (New although been sitting in my mates garage for 15 years) rear shock and new springs along with an rear ARB from a late 924s Le mans which I might use.

In regards the wheels I have picked these up for bargain £130 and are actually BBS which are nice and light as fitted to the 996 so if I either don't like the feel or the look I will go back to plan A which was d90 or the 7" teledials

decision decisions

cheers

Gaz



Ok a 964 with 18's would be fairly stiff and uncomfortable, so if you were used to that your not too far off a transaxle with stiff suspension and bigger wheels etc...


The suspension market is marketed with harder in mind and there is a gap if you don't want this, but you also want something better than stock


The strut v Insert scenerio does make it so much easier and tempting to just buy a kit where the front strut and spring is all new ..


The Gaz and Spaz kits / Spring rates are too stiff for my car so I went for Spax Inserts because they are top adjustable and not valved as hard as their RSX kits (Spax told me) and because with the original strut I could (and you can) choose a standard or stronger spring. and not a stiff 2.25ID race coil system...like Spax and Gaz use


I'm not sure if Euro Car Parts do a Sachs Complete Strut ?


But unless you've got severe Rust, the shock insert is easily removed and the remaining tube and bracket would easily be blasted and painted without much hassle.


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Old 09-08-2016, 07:44 AM
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The difference between your original 6x15" Teledial Wheels and the prospective
7x17" set is the extra 1" width and ET50 offset is distributed that these wheels will sit 10mm further outboard, and 15mm further inwards.

I would estimate the 17" set will be approx 70Kg+ (154 lbs)
and your originals 58KG (128lbs)

If you think what's the best tyres for grip& traction, it's the huge side walled tall
dragster tyre which has a soft sidewall that ripples, deflects and twists...





Looking at another sport, Drifting...
They use high tyre pressures , big wheels and very small profiles...so they can slide......




These two extremes illustrate the general traits of each sport's tyre grip requirements and the different sidewall profiles they use accordingly.

Construction and compounds also play their part but generally the big wheel smaller profile has been led and marketed to be Racey to sell! and it does!

You look at any Tyre and wheel marketing and it'll be telling you all sorts of things like derived from our Racing Experience, Better this and better that....because this is what people read, think and Buy!

Many people will then of course swear blind that there 944 fitted with 8" and 10" x 18 's on 225/40/18 and 265/35/18's grips loads better than the stock 16's but this is not entirely true...

One of the (5) 944's I had I fitted a set of BMW 8 series 17" staggered BBS Splitrims and I had specially made adapters from 5x120 to 5x130, it's looked "Racey" & cool but didn't handle and grip any better than the 15" Cookie Cutters....








Time, experience and technology do assist and change things and I'm sure a new 991 on 20" Rims is very good, although every new car these days not to mention supersports cars come with so many electronic aids to assist grip, stop wheels spinning, control the suspension and stop the brakes locking etc..

F1 tried a car with 18" Wheels and low profiles and the car lape 12 seconds slower! The driver said it was very twitchy, unstable and generally lacked feel and compliance as your 'd expect going from a 13" Tyre will a reasonable amount of sidewall which flexes and aids traction...especially with over 900bhp!

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Old 09-08-2016, 05:04 PM
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I get your point about the set ups although don't think I'm going to have enough oomph to do either of these things The wheels arrived today and certainly feel light and going buy this table http://www.944racing.de/wheelweights.php

weigh 8.2kg each as mentioned I will give them a try and then decide if their ok I like the BMW wheels on your old 944 very cool also had stub axle and ball joints delivered spares are mounting up.
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Old 09-16-2016, 02:28 PM
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So small progress the hubs have been blasted and painted just need to stick the new wheel bearings in, top mounts spindles etc have all been cleaned up and painted.New control arms arrived so stuck the new ball joints on.

In regards the suspension I have decided to go with the koni sport adjustables which are inserts so have stripped the strut which was surprisingly easy and will drop them off at the powder coaters this week along with the calipers

The inserts that came out are Boge automatics not sure if they are the originals but there is no bounce left in them
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Old 09-25-2016, 01:42 PM
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a bit of progress today got the radiator and various plumbing out with no drama , moved onto the starter motor which again came out easy enough however a couple of problems here somebody had applied copious amounts of silicon to the solenoid and terminals not sure why and the heavy gauge wire from the solenoid to motor is not far away from being worn through so will need stripped down to replace the cable.

had a go at the manifold/exhaust nuts and got a couple off the rest were less willing I was struggling to get a 12mm socket to fit properly stuck some rost-off on to help them along.
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Old 09-26-2016, 01:34 AM
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You may want to drop the gas tank and change out the braided fuel lines.
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Old 09-26-2016, 08:49 AM
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The plan at the moment is to refurb the front end engine/brakes/suspension then at a later date pull all the back end out, the braided fuel pipe you mention do they run the full length of the car or does the braided pipe join another pipe somewhere I don't really want to pull the tank out at the moment.
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Old 10-09-2016, 03:52 PM
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A few hours grabbed today rebuilt the hubs and discs with new bearings all round might be a while before they are reunited with the car mind you ,

Got the rigging set up to drop the engine happened to have a tirfor kicking around the garage car needs raised on the stands another hole for enough clearance to slip the engine out.

One of the top Torque tube bolts was a real pain to remove. just left with the steering shaft which is also proving to be stubborn to get of the steering rack a challenge for next weekend.

Ok so have now found out the bolt has to be removed completely from the steering rack rather than just slackened off
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Old 01-17-2017, 06:09 PM
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I made a small bit of progress and got the refurbished struts back together with new Koni adjustable inserts and a set of mo30 springs all looking a bit better than when they came off.

Working away at the moment so popped round to one of my bike racer mates and his mental bmw bike in the background replaced it last year as he could only get up to 188 on the straights at the North west road race
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