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So after months of trying to talk myself into an affordable 996 as my first Porsche, I just couldn't do it due to all the potential issues with the model if a non-turbo.
So now, several months later I have run into the possibility of buying a 912 from a friends wife. I say his wife because she has inherited the car from her father.
The car was purchased brand new in Cincinnati by her father and was stored in a heated garaged and lightly driven ever since until his passing last year. It was then moved into my friends heated garage in Ohio where it is still lightly driven.
The car is a 1968 912
Ossi blue with a red leather interior.
Factory installed options include: 9127 Outside Mirror Left, 9208/08 Seat Belts both sides, 9112 Semperit STT Tires, 9101, 4 hubcaps with Porsche emblem, 9121, 5 chrome plated wheels, 9220, bumper guards front & 9221 bumper guards rear.
It is all original except paint (engine was also removed and the engine bay painted) and the radio.
It still has the build sheet and the window sticker, but the original owner had laminated them.
I am curious about a couple things:
1. Is the car still a good investment having been repainted and the dash slightly modified for the radio?
2. I haven't driven it yet, so will this feel like a sports car or will it feel like a like driving a 4cyl VW bug?
3. Will doing minor performance enhancements to the car hurt the value?
4. What's the ballpark price range for it? I mean I see them from 20k-70k and they don't look much different to me.
Thanks for helping a newbie, wanna'be Porsche guy.
1. If you are buying it for an investment you would probably be better off putting your money somewhere else. If you want a cool car that just makes you smile every time you drive, and you enjoy working on and restoring it, then and at some point you had to sale you probably would be able to recoup most of your money.
2. The 912 will dive more like a VW Bug with a better suspension. Its not a modern sports car, which I think is a lot of the appeal. Diving the 912 fast is really driving.
3. I have done some performance enhancements, larger pistons and cylinders, performance street cam. It has made a big improvement for me especially around where I live there are a lot of mountain passes. I am not sure if it helps or hurts the value but that is not something I worry about, for me it was a huge improvement. I know some owners if they have a numbers matching car will pull the original engine out and put on a shelf and put in a performance enhanced type 4 engine for driving and then when they decide to sale reinstall the original engine.
4. The price will reflect the condition of the car, the $70K car is going to look like it just came of the assembly line (probably better) no rust, every fitting properly plated, every gap in the panels perfect, every gasket seal perfect. It probably took $100K to get it to that condition. The $20K probably won't run and needs a engine overhaul, probably has rusted out floor pans and other panels that need to be replaced, worn upholstery and paint. Its all repairable but if you are having to spend money to have someone else do the work it is going to get expensive fast.
I also have a '68 912 and I also just got a 997. If you're looking for horsepower and acceleration the 912 isn't for you. I always tell people that the 912 isn't fast but it's quick and it's agile and because the power band is relatively narrow it's rewarding when you get the car to preform. In my 912 85mph feels like I am hauling *** while in the 997 85mph is just something that goes by when I am in 4th gear
I guess the other thing to consider is which will hold its value better. If you can get a deal on the 912 (in the $30,000 range), I think you'll either make money if you ever sell it or at least you won't lose any money. In a 996, if you found a well sorted one, say for $28,000, odds are it's gonna be worth far less when you sell it.
Also, if you like attention get the 912. I am constantly getting asked about mine when it's stopped and thumbs up when I am driving.
Hmm. Well, as noted above, that choice is sort of like the difference between apples and oranges. Not much similarity beyond both being round and sweetish. Actually, more like pomegranate and cantaloupe. My summer DD is a '07 997C4 cab, my racecar is a '67 912 coupe, and I'm restoring a '69 911T coupe as a toy. Pomegranate, cantaloupe, and grapes. Really, unless you can afford both you need to figure out what you really want.
Do you just want a Porsche? I just sold my 996 to buy a 912 and I can assure you they are VERY different cars. I always loved the older cars and wasn't sad to see the water pumper go, even though in all fairness, it was a pretty nice car but man, you are on opposite ends of the the world with this.
The thing I'm enjoying about my 912 so far are the prices for parts.....I can practically rebuild the entire suspension for the price of a set of shocks for the 996 😀
Hmm. Well, as noted above, that choice is sort of like the difference between apples and oranges. Not much similarity beyond both being round and sweetish. Actually, more like pomegranate and cantaloupe. My summer DD is a '07 997C4 cab, my racecar is a '67 912 coupe, and I'm restoring a '69 911T coupe as a toy. Pomegranate, cantaloupe, and grapes. Really, unless you can afford both you need to figure out what you really want.
Sure, happy to. It was built as a racecar in 1997-8. I bought it six years ago and have sunk a ridiculous amount of $ into it. The engine has a 1720 big bore kit, a medium racing cam, runs a compression ratio of ~11.5:1, and the gearset has been optimized for road racing. It does pretty well, but it really needs major attention to the suspension. I vintage race all over North America, and have only ever encountered two other racing 912s. It vintage races in class EP and it PCA club races in class GT-6.
I believe I'm all set up. Just need to get off my *** and get signed up. My suspension is dialed in with F&R sway bars and Koni adjustable dampers on both ends. My motor runs strong and I have been able to hang with the stock 2.0 uphill in the mtns
Do you just want a Porsche? I just sold my 996 to buy a 912 and I can assure you they are VERY different cars. I always loved the older cars and wasn't sad to see the water pumper go, even though in all fairness, it was a pretty nice car but man, you are on opposite ends of the the world with this.
The thing I'm enjoying about my 912 so far are the prices for parts.....I can practically rebuild the entire suspension for the price of a set of shocks for the 996 😀
Sorry for the absence, busy week at work.
I am very clear on the big difference. In reality I would love to have both, and maybe I will eventually. The picks are from 2 years of research and after seeing both models in person, these two models have chosen me.....
They are the two models that "move" me and that are within grasp.
Very few Porsches that don't move me.....that said I'll share my experience thus far having owned both cars you're looking at -
The 996 is basically a really sexy, fast everyday car. Mine was very reliable and had all the creature comforts, but for me, lacked "soul". The work I did do to it, brakes and a few odds and ends, was pricey. Just about any part for that car is $$$$. The last things I did was ignition coils, 6 of them were $550 and I put them in myself so add another couple hundred for labor if you're not the type to do the work.
Fast forward to today. I just got off the phone with a guy about doing some rust repair and we're in the $5-$10k range. I've purchased the necessary stamped sheet metal already, as well as all new bushings, brake rebuild parts, generator, regulator, glass seals, new steering wheel, rennshift shifter, tires, turbo tie rod upgrade, and a bunch of little hardware bits and pieces and that has totaled @ $5k, and again, most of it I'll do myself. So all in I'll be putting somewhere in the area of $10-$15k into my 912. When it's done it'll be rust free and completely refreshed all around, and it will have the sound, smell, and feel of a car that is drenched in "soul". I will also have the piece of mind that the car is indeed rust free and solid. I have very little confidence in any car that hasn't been bare metal restored at this point, so much so, that I wouldn't think of buying a long hood again unless I factored in rust repair, or it had a documented restoration.
The way I see it with your choices is this- you can spend $35-$40k-ish on a 996 turbo that will likely continue to depreciate or you can spend about the same on buying or restoring a 912. Bottom line, they're both about the same price. One will likely increase in value, the other likely decrease. One has soul, one little to none. (Strictly my opinion)
Very few Porsches that don't move me.....that said I'll share my experience thus far having owned both cars you're looking at -
The 996 is basically a really sexy, fast everyday car. Mine was very reliable and had all the creature comforts, but for me, lacked "soul". The work I did do to it, brakes and a few odds and ends, was pricey. Just about any part for that car is $$$$. The last things I did was ignition coils, 6 of them were $550 and I put them in myself so add another couple hundred for labor if you're not the type to do the work.
Fast forward to today. I just got off the phone with a guy about doing some rust repair and we're in the $5-$10k range. I've purchased the necessary stamped sheet metal already, as well as all new bushings, brake rebuild parts, generator, regulator, glass seals, new steering wheel, rennshift shifter, tires, turbo tie rod upgrade, and a bunch of little hardware bits and pieces and that has totaled @ $5k, and again, most of it I'll do myself. So all in I'll be putting somewhere in the area of $10-$15k into my 912. When it's done it'll be rust free and completely refreshed all around, and it will have the sound, smell, and feel of a car that is drenched in "soul". I will also have the piece of mind that the car is indeed rust free and solid. I have very little confidence in any car that hasn't been bare metal restored at this point, so much so, that I wouldn't think of buying a long hood again unless I factored in rust repair, or it had a documented restoration.
The way I see it with your choices is this- you can spend $35-$40k-ish on a 996 turbo that will likely continue to depreciate or you can spend about the same on buying or restoring a 912. Bottom line, they're both about the same price. One will likely increase in value, the other likely decrease. One has soul, one little to none. (Strictly my opinion)
Great post, thank you for taking the time to write it.
A car with "soul" found me yesterday. It's a 1969 912 and I have been doing the back and forth negotiations regarding it.
Good about it:
Beautifully clean with a brand new "refreshed" interior
Beautiful paint
very very clean
Fuch's
Bad:
Replacement 912 Motor
Wrong Paint (White and clean instead of factory burgundy w/ luggage rack)
I say those are bad, but in reality it will ease my mind about doing some things to it to put "my touch" on it. I also wont feel bad about driving the hell out of it!!!
As long as I don't over pay, and realize that it will never be as collectible or worth as much as an original car, I think I will be good.
12-18-2015, 10:05 PM
1968 912 Questions
