Staffan

Hi
I have a 964 turbo currently at 100.000km with a lot of track driving.
Have B&B headers and a HF turbo that I have been running for a couple of years now.



It shoots blue smoke like crazy, think/hope it is the turbo, but I am not sure.
I have no blue smoke when the engine is cold and no blue smoke at lower revs.

It starts after about 1 minute of hard driving, there is smoke from both the exhaust and wastegate side. When I do a throttle lift I get a BIG cloud. If I run on continous high revs it smokes big time.

The car is at a shop at Nürburgring, I removed the turbo and brought it back home, the german shop will do a leak down test this week. When the turbo was removed I checked the hose between the turbo and intercooler, there was some oil, but if I remember correctly there has allways been some oil there. Couldn't spot much oil in the intercooler, maybee a little bit damp, but not much. There was no oil in the turbo (air out), a drop or two of oil on the turbo air-in side, but that could have been from the mechanics oily glows.

Any ideas on where to go from here?

Edit:
Oil level is checked and okey.
I had some kind of oil leak on the right hand side in the engine compartement (it stopped now, could have been a loose oil cap), lots of oil in there and in the air box (it's cut open), cleaned the airfilter with brake cleaner (K&N). But it doubt it has something to do with it since there is no smoke when the engine is cold.

38D

Any leaks from the turbo bearing section? How many track days do you have on the turbo?

Staffan

Where is the "turbo bearing section", is that between the "air" and "exhaust" sections? If so, yes it's leaking some oil there, has been doing that from the start.

I would think the turbo has about 50-60 hours of track time, perhaps a bit more. 25 of these hours are at the Nürburgring (long straights, some of the up-hill).

BReyes

Can you do a leakdown?

Regards,

Kevin

The first sign of a failing turbocharger is oil present in the compressor inlet..

For track cars>> in a perfect world it would be nice to see the turbochargers every two to three years for a tune up..

Staffan

Bernard, what do you mean?
The shop is going to do one for me, or do you mean it's not possible when the turbo isn't pressent?

Staffan

Thanks Kevin, I was focusing on the compressor outlet pipe, the hose connected to the intercooler and the intercooler. But I am pretty sure there was a little bit of oil in the compressor inlet, some of it was probably from the mechanics glows so I am not sure, think there was oil in the middle, on the bolt that holds the compressor wheel.

Are there any other tells or test I can do myself with the turbo removed from the engine before shipping it to a turbo shop?

Staffan

Just got off the phone with a turbo tuner shop, they will be able to renovate it for $900 usd, is that a fair price?

Edit: I was recommended another tuner that will do it for $720 usd.

He suggested to check that crank ventilation, don't understand how that would effect things?

Another thing that just struck me is that the B&B turbo drop tank was a little bit damaged, the welding on the pipe going up to the turbo was partly broken, so the drop tank could be wiggled back and forth, thinking that air could come into the system, could that cause the smoking problem?

dholling13

I would send the turbo to Kevin. Sounds like you may have damaged the B&B turbo sump.

Staffan

I will check with Kevin of course, but shipping across the pond is expensive and I have flight tickets back to germany in 2 1/2 weeks.
Yeah, it would be interesting to hear if this broken sump would cause any problems (will re-weld it of course).

fast951

Many items can cause a turbocharged engine to smoke, some of which (not in any particular order);

- Damaged engine (blow-by)
A leakdown test is a good start to examine the condition of the engine internals (rings, valves). A leakdown test is a good test for any track car. It allows you to detect problems before they cause serious damage.

- Damaged turbo - Dumping oil into the intake or the exhaust
Inspection by a good shop will determine the condition. Excessive oil in the compressor and/or oil in the turbine (hot housing) are indicators of a bad turbo. Since the turbo is out, I would refresh it.

- Badly clogged air filter
The turbo is trying to pull air through the filter, however it ends up pulling oil through the compresor's oil seal instead. You will see excessive oil in the compressor. (not likely here).

- Improper turbo oil drainage system
If the turbo is not draining properly it will flood and will cause the engine to smoke. On the 930 & 965, the oil drains from the turbo into the catch can, the turbo oil pump transfers the oil back to the main tank. If the catch can is getting full and the oil is no longer draining out of the turbo, then the turbo will smoke (people not using KKK turbos on a 930 know about this). If the turbo is left with a bad oil drain it might get damaged.

* If the catch can is damaged, letting air in; I wonder if this is causing the turbo oil pump to lose its suction, and not extracting the oil out of the catch can fast enough causing the turbo to flood.. I would fix this problem regardless!
As far as the crankcase ventilation goes; In general most turbos drain back into the crankcase. If the crankcase has excessive pressure, the oil will not drain properly and could cause the turbo to flood and it will smoke. Of course, excessive crankcase pressure can be caused by many things like a bad crankcase ventilation system or bad rings (excessive blow-by).

Kevin

Steffan, the crack in the tank could cause a suction issue. The oil in the tank might not be scavenged correctly causing a high oil level. This would not be a ideal situation for even a new turbocharger. Oil has to move freely thru the turbocharger.

Staffan

Please tell me this is oil...

Staffan

Thanks so much John!

Staffan

There is an oil film in the compressor house, shouldn't be that way right?