SEW QUIK

Here are my pics of the new-to-me 1978 930. Originally built by Michael Benet and Steve Kasper at Imagine Auto, this car was known as Big Bad and is still on the Imagine Auto website under "our cars". After two subsequent owners, I was lucky enough to pick it up here in the Bay Area last fall after it somehow passed smog. I was worried about running a high strung motor (441 hp at 0.8 bar) on what passes for gasoline here in CA (91 octane) and put a bigger Kokeln intercooler on after speaking with the good Doctor at IA. The build sheet (my guess is 25K miles ago) is listed below. I plan on driving the car on the street only and am in awe of the power. The car is in the shop now getting some oil leaks sealed up, and I had some questions for the experts on the board:

1) Is there anything that I should do now while the motor is out? Clean injectors, etc.?

2) How does the K27 11/11 compare with the newer versions of the K27 such as the K27 HF? What exactly is a 11/11? Is it the same as a K27 7200?

3) Full boost comes on at about 3000 to 3300 rpm. It seems to come on slower since the bigger IC was put on. Can the Kokeln IC "soak up" more boost and thus increase lag? Would a different turbo help this?

4) I received a HKS IV EBC from the last owner that was purchased used. Will this really help reduce lag? I am little leery of putting on a relatively complex electronic device that was bought used, and would appreciate any input regarding real world experiences after EBC installs for relatively low boost levels (e.g. 0.8 bar).

5) Friends with 930's all seem to have upgraded (?) to 18 inch wheels. This car currently has 16 inch BBS wheels which I like. Is there a real handling advantage to 18 inch wheels for cars driven on the street? What are the ride tradeoffs? Perhaps the money would be better spent on coilover conversion?

thanks,

SEW QUIK

Here are the details:

1978 930 Turbo with the following Factory items:
Grand Prix White
Light red full leather interior
Power sunroof
Climate control
Air conditioning
Rear defrost
Headlight washers
Power windows

Updated factory items:
RSR lightweight flywheel
Euro spec brass fender mount oil cooler
22mm '88 factory front sway bar
20mm '88 factory rear sway bar
Factory four spoke '88 Turbo leather steering wheel
Factory steering wheel extended hub
Rotary updated air conditioning compressor
Factory '83 center dash vent
Factory '88 H5 headlamps
200 mph speedometer
Numeral oil temp gauge
16 x 7 & 9 BBS wheels
Added right side mirror

Aftermarket items:
K27 11/11 turbocharger
B&B fabrication lifetime guaranteed stainless exchangers
B&B fabrication lifetime guaranteed stainless dual 3-inch outlet muffler
SC330 sport grind camshafts set at 1.90 advanced
PowerFlow airbox system
Ruf lightweight pressure plate & dual friction disk
Bilstein "sport yellow" front shock inserts
Bilstein "sport yellow" rear shocks
Short throw shifter kit
High watt H5 -80/120w headlight bulbs
High watt H3 - 100w fog light bulbs
High watt halogen brake/taillight bulbs
Solid rear engine mounts
CD Player with bass speaker system and high watt amplifier
Stainless steel braided brake lines
Custom large mm spark plug wires (red)
AJ-USA strut tower brace
27 row oil cooler and fan

Internal engine:
Factory parts used throughout...
Main bearings
Rod bearings
Rod nuts & bolts
Piston rings
993 "steel's" fully threaded head studs (24)
12 new sod filled factory exhaust valves
12 new sod filled factory intake valves
Manganese bronze valve guides
Teflon valve stem seals
Brass crank/distributor gear
Full factory gasket kit

Machine work:
Magnaflux then balance crank
Magnaflux then balance rods
Balance flywheel to crank
Balance pistons & piston pins
Full "hot street" multi angle valve job
Competition shim, set height & match valve springs
Flycut 1 mm off head deck height to raise C/R to 7.5:1

sand_man

Nice! I do love GP White!

Jean

Sew Quick, congrats!

If the car is at IA, I would ask the builder for recommendations. Since this engine was built, there has been a lot of progress when it comes to turbos and other..

I would certainly change the turbo and put one of their newest technologies from Ultimatemotorwerks, the B&B exhaust system is no good once you change the turbo, it is restrictive, but listen to Stephen. Do you have a 1Bar wastegate spring?

Edit: I just saw that you have an EBC..It will help a bit with lag (need newer turbos!), so you have a base spring in the WG, you have to be careful with that EBC, 1 Bar is tops I would say.

A larger intercooler can certainly change your boost response, it is related to pressure drop, not necessarily always the case with bigger I/Cs, but it will run your car more efficienctly with less heat soak in principle.

Enjoy the car, it is great to see these cars resurface.

Porschefile

SEW QUIK, your car looks great!

An EBC will help spoolup as the solenoids tend to react very quickly. From what I understand about the EVC IV, I believe it has sort of an auto-learning "gain". Gain is basically the response time of the boost control solenoid(s). This directly reflects on the speed with which it will send the signal to the wastegate.

I've used these at low boost, and they work just fine. It's impossible to set a boost controller to run less boost than the wastegate spring pressure though. Personally, IMO, there are some much better and more consistant EBC's on the market from Blitz, Greddy and Apexi. The EVC IV works just fine, though I've occasionally heard of some boost spike issues with them due to it being a little tricky setting up the "auto gain" feature. Either way, it's better than an MBC!

The nice thing is it has a warning mode which will flash the screen and beep if you pass your preset max boost level. The other good feature of this overboost protection mode is it will revert back to stock boost settings (which you can specify) if you pass the preset max boost level. Most more modern EBC's have similar features, and it has saved me several times in both my 911 and 951. It may look complicated to install, but it really isn't that difficult for the average do-it-yourself car guy. This page has a copy of the instruction manual HKS IV EVC if you want to learn a little more about it.

As for wheels, I haven't really detected any significant difference between 18" and 17" to really warrant one over the other. Good performance tires are slowly becoming less and less available in 16" sizes, so that is one incentive to step up to 17" wheels.

Coilovers are nice, but you might try upgrading the torsion bars and having the damper valving matched accordingly. Shock valving is sort of a black art and plays a big role in ride quality. You can have some fairly stiff springs rates, but still maintain good ride quality if the valving is properly matched. TB's work just fine and with a good matched set of shocks can cost considerably less than most of the coilover setups I've seen. I'd suggest trying to find someone local that has an upgraded TB or coilover setup, and see if you can go for a ride. Suspension can be a personal preference thing IMO. What one guy likes, another might not.

PorschePhD

Wow, BB is back...Her big brother now is an Aussie and no longer in the states. Nice to see that BB is stateside and back on the boards....Great color combo. Always loved the Lobster interior!!

Now I would do a few things, modify the fuel head. That car needs it. By today’s standards we have changed a lot since that build. So if nothing else, seal it up and add some fuel to the system. The fuel head is the safest way to go and will provide more than enough fuel for that build. I would also look at the wastegate. If I recall the seat section had some pin holes showing. That was years ago so unless it was replaced then it is probably due.

2)Lots of changes with the turbo. You can now have more push and faster spooling than the 11/11. The 11/11 is now about a 30 year old turbo. We use different wheels and still maintain that reliability that KKK/BW is known for. I can help you lower those spool times with just a turbo change. The cams in there are a custom grind and you will realize the difference quickly.

3)The intercooler is a larger void to fill. Although it becomes a wash normally with cooler denser air coming in.

4)This has been covered. I love the HKS EVC. They are some of the best no nonsense systems out there. They will help farther reduce lag times. Maybe a few hundred RPM, but they also will allow you to maintain a steady boost level regardless of heat, pressure etc.

5)I can't say there are any benefits to going to the 18s other than people also typically bump the size. Which in turn gives a larger contact area. IN which case you would see benefits. It modernizes the car and gives it a better look. While the BBS are nice people will tend to think it dates the car. I would look at something similar to the 3.6 turbo wheel with a nice offset in the rear. Like the RH stuff. Yes, that is what we sell but not a plug. The car is mean and the offset in the rear is the biggest dish you can get for a 930 from RH. It looks great. That is what we have on the 87 cab turbo.

Congrats, let me know if you have questions...Still LOVE that interior!!

slownrusty

I/m with SewQuik, I do not like the extra wiring for the HKS EVC, a simple ball and spring manual boost controller works well and all the new models are easy to adjust with a turn dial (whereas previous ones had an allen key for adjustment). I'm all about simplicity. The MBC that I run brings the lag down about 500-800rpm.

I recently went through the same dilema in regards to wheels and upgraded from the factory 16" Fuchs to 17" HRE. There is a good thread in my post that discusses 18" as an option and if it upsets the car's balance or not.

Would not hurt to clean the injectors and yes new more modern turbos are now available.

Congrats on your purchase.

Yasin

Earlierapex

Hey, I know that face! I was one of the fortunate temporary owners of that crazy machine. I owned it for about a year about 6 years ago. I've still got the dyno chart somewhere on my computer. I'll dig it up if you want it.

You may want to check the rear swaybar. I could've sworn I replaced it with a weltmeister. Not sure though as BB was my second 930.

That crazy car ran a sub 1:40 at Road Atlanta with the stock suspension and some Kumhos. Talk about horsepower...

Have fun. Make sure the road is clear when the boost hits. Does it still throw flames?

-dc

Peter Carroll/Toronto

Don't necessarily rush to 18s for handling. I switched to 18s for tire availability but in hindsight I think it still handles better on the 17s. The lower profile 18s are more sensitive to camber change - of which there is a lot in the 930 suspension. The later 964 cars use a more modern coil suspension so they don't really suffer from this.

Though the 18s do work well, they make a bit more work for the driver.

SoFast

I would have to disagree on the difference between the 18's and 17's. I have both for my car. My car came with 17's and I got a great set of 18's. I feel the 18's are much better. My car is lowered and has all of the mods to the suspension. I feel I work less with the 18's, but it all might depend on how the car is set up!

Daley88930

I will weigh in with the wheel discussion. When I bought my car 2 years ago it had 18" Turbo Twists from a 996 and I did not like the look. When the car was redone I went back to polished 16" 7s and 9s with stock tire size. The car felt much more immediate,dialed in, and responsive on the street and all I do is street. It also looks right(except who would not want enormous in the back just for looks?) I am glad I went back to the original. Good Luck and it sounds like a great find.

PorscheMD

For my taste, I think the 17's are the way to go. Less harsh than 18's and way better feel then 16's.

sand_man

I'm still rocking my pristine set of 16"s. I just can't bring myself to put the 18" SSR GT3s back on. I know they're gorgeous, but my 16" Fuchs have a sleeper look that doesn't seem to distract from the other elements of the car. Plus my car is GP White with all the black trim....so the black paddle Fuchs really finish it off nice. I know I'll get curious again and install the 18s, but the Fuchs are just so damn lite!

A930Rocket

That's the last car I remember you driving at Road Atlanta. You were cooking out there and I was envious of your times....