keith

Hey guys, I'm trying to discern what the actual differences between a mid-80s 911 and 930 are in terms of chassis/shell... I know some suspension/brake stuff was different, as well as the obvious driveline differences, but what if any were the changes to the body besides the flared fenders?

Is it possible to use a non-turbo 911 shell to replace a seriously bent 930 shell?

Thanks!

Rick DeMan

Hi Keith,

The most notable difference is the location of the rear most motor mounts...they are about an inch or so farther back in the chassis than the 911...Porsche did this to give clearance for the longer trans bell housing of the 3.3L 930 engine wich came with a rubber centered clutch disk to lower some of the gear noise...

The 76-77 930 chassis is the same as the 911...it also had the 4 speed turbo trans but a short bell housing and a non rubber centered disk..

All of the 911 cars had the shorter style trans...

So, you can get a 911 chassis to work for you if you do either one of two things...
1) cut/ weld and relocate the rear mounts...not recomended if you are not a competent chassis fabricator/welder...
2) Find a short bellhousing 76-77 930 trans...then it will all bolt right in...

Good luck

Rick DeMan
DeMan Motorsport
845 727 3070

GeorgeK

The rear banana arm pickup points are different, the rear parcel shelf under the rear window is different, and I think the front A arms have different height front attaches (anti-dive geometry).
Otherwise, the steering rack is different too.
It can be done, but it is serious work for the rear banana arms pickup points.

rickc

I think you are correct about the front end geometry being different. I recall reading this as well. There are more differences than just wider fenders.
'78 930

jhunt@huntinter

The VIN is different. No matter what you do it will still be a converted 911, not a 930. The prices of real 930's are low enough that it would not be all that much different to just get a 930 instead of trying to convert a 911. Can you do a great quality conversion for the $10k price differance? Heck body and paint will just about put you there all by themselves, not to mention the mechanicals.

keith

VIN# and value are largely irrelevant to me. However, suspension geometry changes are possibly extremely relevant to performance (perhaps moreso than ther 930 powertrain?).

So what I'm hearing is: Driveline can be installed in the 911 shell, but the 930 suspension cannot? Correct?

jhunt@huntinter

My understanding of the changes in the suspension where to allow the race 934 and 935's to have a wider range of adjustment for the track by changing the suspension mounting points. The rules allowed for a certain amount of change from stock. I don't know that it provides any advantage otherwise. I don't think this impacts our cars as far as adjustment goes unless you have a welder. Steve Weiner is the guy to ask for certain since he did work on those old cars.

Of course many of the 930 parts are significantly stronger then the 911 counterparts and the race version were even stronger.

BJJones

Hi

Some model 911's must share the same engine and suspension mounting points as the 930.

I say this with authority because I had a Carrera 3.0 that I fitted a 930 engine, 930 four speed transmission and complete suspension to without modifying any mounting points. The engine sat in exactly the same position as the one in my current 930.

I also know someone who did the same with an SC again no mods to any pick up points etc....

Can one of the Pro's give us some clarification please?

Rick DeMan

Hello Bj,

OK, here it is again with clarification........The most notable difference is the location of the rear most motor mounts...they are about an inch or so farther back in the chassis than the 911...Porsche did this to give clearance for the longer trans bell housing of the 3.3L 930 engine wich came with a rubber centered clutch disk to lower some of the gear noise...

The 76-77 930 chassis is the same as the 911...it also had the 4 speed turbo trans but a short bell housing and a non rubber centered disk..

All of the 911 cars had the shorter style trans...

So, you can get a 911 chassis to work for you if you do either one of two things...
1) cut/ weld and relocate the rear mounts...not recomended if you are not a competent chassis fabricator/welder...
2) Find a short bellhousing 76-77 930 trans...then it will all bolt right in...

Secondly....the rear inner control arm mounting points are different as George K said above...

The front suspention mounting points are EXACTLY the same....George is right about the Geometry being different, but that was achieved by a spacer welded on the front control arm....NOT the chassis...

If your Carrera 3.0 chassis is stock it will not accept a 3.3 turbo engine and trans...it would accept a 3.0 or 3.3 turbo motor if it is bolted to the SHORT turbo 4 speed as mentioned above.....

I hope that is clear enough for you....

Rick DeMan
DeMan Motorsport
Nyack N.Y.

Check out the almost ready new web site...at the link below..

http://65.215.66.59/deman/index.php

BJJones

Sorry Rick but it isnt clear.

What is the difference on the rear suspension pick up points? as stated I have fitted with no modification at all the complete rear suspension from a 1979 930 Turbo to a completley stock Carrera 3.0. I know the car was stock as I removed all the original suspension parts myself.

What would not fit and what would be wrong?

Their is a possibility that I have an early short bell housing gearbox, I will check that out. Any idea of the part numbers?

Sorry if you got the hump about me asking a pro for clarification (i take it you have by the tone of your reply) what I should have asked for is a second opinion from another pro.

Peace

BJJones

Also could you clarify what you mean by a spacer welded on the front control arm please? do you mean on the 'A' arms?

I have just inspected all the suspension and steering components from a 1978 Turbo that I have against the Carrera 3.0 ones and the only difference I can see is the spacer on the track rod ends.

Could you let me know what I am looking for and where it is please?

Thanks

GeorgeK

The pivot points for the rear banana arms is about an inch further back and an inch higher (different, shorter banana arms, and anti-squat geometry). If you put the Turbo arms on the std Carrera shell, the wheel will be about an inch too far forward in the wheel well.
In front, there are spacers (on the A-arm attachment, as per Rick), that put the front of the A arm 10 mm lower (anti dive geometry).
The steering rack from a 930 has a different casting for the housing, placing it higher on the alloy transversal beam.
I can't tell about the rear engine mounts for sure, but I have helped put the engine/gearbox of a wreked '86 Turbo in a '77 Carrera, and all bolted straight in.

BJJones

George

Did the 86 gearbox go straight in without having to move the rear engine mounts?

keith

Good stuff guys, I appreciate it.
I am getting a little more confident about this potential job...!

GeorgeK

BJJ
As far as I remember, yes.
It only takes a tape measure to find out, but my cars are in storage.