breaqnaway

Hi,
I wanted to pose a question to anyone who has made the jump from a 997 back to an air cooled 911 (or vice versa), and get your thoughts on why you made the switch and how it worked our for you.

A little background, I've had my first 911, a 2005 997 C2 for over a two months and use it primarily as a weekend car. Had the IMS/RMS/clutch done, and initially really loved the car. As the first thrill has worn off, I'm finding the car a little "boring" in the sense that it's extremely fast, extremely capable, but doesn't seem to have the same experience that older, and slower cars I've had in the past (900 turbo, Miata). Now I've started looking at trading 'down' to either a 911sc or 3.2. I haven't had a chance to test drive an air cooled car yet, but hopefully will get a chance in the next few months.

Thanks for all your advice and thoughts.

DoninDen

I went from a 997 4S to a 993TT and now have a 911 SC. All different and great cars! As you go back, less creature features (my AC doesn't work - next year project). The 997's handle tight and wonderfully, I just test drove a 997.1TT and coming back to the future, was amazed how much like a formula car it felt like. I guess what I.m saying is you can't really go wrong with any 911 and with an air cooled, if the market stays firm, you can always change your mind. One concern I'd have with a 3.2 is if hasn't been rebuilt. The 3.2 have more power and you can do more with a 3.2 than a SC, but it won't go to 300K without a rebuild. A rebuild if you keep it stock is probably $10K, if you build it out, $20K.

Spyerx

I have. I love switching between them.
I think the 964 is my favorite for a visceral feeling with classic looks, modern suspension, and heating/cooling. The 3.2 feels a lot older but in a good way.
But I also think the 997 base model cars are really awesome.

911Dave

I started with a 3.2 Carrera and owned it at the same time as a 997 S. I sold the 997 2 years later because it wasn't much fun to drive. I replaced it with a 993 4S, which looked great and was much more fun, but still not as fun as the 3.2. I now only have a 3.2 and wouldn't replace it with anything but maybe a 2.7 RS.

GTS Sully

I'd go back to a 993, but that's it. I'd own a '72 T or '84 Carrera again as a 2nd P-car only. Never owned a 964 so obviously no opinion on that.

Edward

1. You find the modern 911 "boring" presumably for its manners, despite its capabilities
2. You prefer a more "interesting" car for weekends/fun runs that will presumably involve the driver more: you want a visceral car (consider your stance on AC now ...pre-964 and it's fairly abysmal!)

Solution: you have it

Most every "modern" car these days have performance up the wazoo, replete with safety and computer nannies to complement all those Gs you've created. But they feel about as "involved" as driving a Nintendo console. Your biggest decision, then, is whether you want a 915 or a G50 trans: that will narrow your search to that year-range of cars. And great cars these are ...like a time machine that reminds you that the car really will do only what you tell it to do

But if you want all the above with genuinely usable AC and a bit more overall civility, I'd absolutely look at the 964 as well.

Edward

Scotty2H

I sold my 997S last year and picked up a 3.2 just a couple weeks ago. It's everything I wanted in a weekend/fun/track car. There is no doubt the 997 was spectacular, however you could barely scratch the surface of it's performance on the street without being wreckless or so far on the wrong side of legal you'd loose it if you got caught.

I much prefer the involved experience of the 3.2; the lack of power steering, long throws and heavy clutch, brakes I literally have to stand on; it's just brilliant fun at moderate speeds. Plus you can wring the engine out through 3 gears and barely keep up with the minivans ahead of you, but that sound!

From a performance standpoint, 997. From an experience standpoint, 3.2.

Also, I like to tinker and it's so much easier to do with the 3.2. Simpler times.

Hunt3R

I sold my '86 3.2 a couple years ago and bought a 997 C2S and I still miss the raw experience of driving the 911 and sometimes I think about selling my 997 to buy another, but the 997 just fits my lifestyle better these days because I don't have the time for all of the little on-going "projects" that an older 911 will need because there's always going to be something on the list that needs to be fixed. Plus my wife and kid fit in the 997 better, safer, and the A/C will actually keep us cool and with the windows up we can hear ourselves talk... If none of this stuff matters to you, go drive an older 911 and give it a try.

Chris M.

I've had a 964, a Euro SC, a 993 C4S, and now an 84 Euro and this is kind of where I am. I love my 84 and it doesn't need any work but I don't have time to DIY anymore, kids are getting bigger, and I feel like I want something I have to be less careful with that's less valuable. I never drive it in the rain, when there's salt on the road, when it's really hot, I don't want it to get dinged in the parking lot, etc and a 997 just seems more disposable. I think a stock 997 would be kind of boring but with a good exhaust and maybe some stiffer engine and tranny mounts it could have a little more sound/soul/feel like the older cars. The only one I've driven is a GTS and it was an awesome ride. Someone talk me off the ledge...

breaqnaway

Thanks everyone for the great comments. Lots of experience on this board with both air and water cooled cars. I'm really looking hard at letting the 997 go and getting into an well sorted SC. I rarely use AC when I drive alone and I think the combination of tossasble and torque will be fun. Just need to get a few test drives. The more I look into the 915 transmission, the more it seems like a none issue. I'm a little worried about maintaining CIS (with EtOH fuel), but it sounds like with some patients it can DIY friendly.

The 997 is terrific car, it's just too capable and I can't get close to enjoying all the performance.

KurtF

I have never met a 911 that I did not love! They are all amazing cars, and all have issues. I have had many. The car I look forward to driving the most on a day to day basis is my 986.1 Boxster. For fun, creature comforts and usability nothing beats the Box. On track, street even in the NE winter this car rocks. So here is my advice: sell the "thrill is gone" 997, get yourself a vintage 76-88 911, and for a car you can drive day to day find yourself a nicely kept 986.1. You won't regret it.

997at

I had my 997.1 S for 7 years before selling it to buy my current 1982 SC. It's basically all been said by the posts above, but I can tell you honestly that I enjoy driving the SC much more than I did the 997. I love the unassisted everything, and the air cooled engine note can't be beaten. I also love to wrench and bond with the car…as someone stated there will always be a little something to fix and maintain in a 30+ year car. I have to admit that I also like the feeling of driving and maintaining a car that you just don't see on the road that often…..I feel in some way that I'm helping to preserve the legend of the 911. I'm on my own here, but my opinion is that if you get your SC AC in factory working condition, it is sufficient. I love the 915………not sure what the problem is everyone mentions. Sure it's a bit notchy, stubborn, etc. but that's part of the charm. Here's the best part for me………I think the looks of the 911 from inception up through the 964 are the best. Something to do with the upright headlights and pronounced fender wings.

Drisump

I have two flavours of a/c 911s, an 85 3.2 and a 96 993. Both are a blast to drive but it must be said while even remaining stock, the 85 is raw, noisy and simple. A stock 993 is too refined for my tastes so I had change a few things....it's fun now! I have had the opportunity to drive quite a few water cooled 911s (never owned one though) and I know what you mean as far as fun, impressive, to be sure, but over time the interest would fade for me. A few guys around here cashed out of their 993 Turbos and bought 997 GT cars (a couple of GT3s, one 3RS....and even one GT2RS). I haven't actually drove one but those guys swear that DNA connection to the original 911 is unmistakable. I have been a passenger in the GT2RS for a number of enthusiastic miles and that car is grossly underachieving even at going to jail speeds....crazy! Between my cars, the passing of eleven years in production dates, resulted in many refinements that change the driving character somewhat. Power steering, coil springs, ABS, multi link rear suspension are a few of those refinements. If you want the rawest possible 911 experience, go torsion bar, if the a/c soundtrack is a must but if more performance and a few more creature comforts is important, go 964/993.

Edward

1. The AC and misc HVAC comfort is one of the major deciders. If not high on your priorities, then you're golden

2. The 915 trans is plenty stout for even a modded SC/3.2 (I seem to recall they're plenty strong up to ~250hp), lighter than a G50, and cheaper to rebuild. Get (or build) a good 915 and you'll be plenty happy. And according to some, a few mods to the shifter and feel improves dramatically. FWIW, my 915 was rebuilt to stock (so no shifter mods) by the PO and it is has been my dedicated trackmeister/fun streeter ...glorious trans; never an issue whatsoever!

3. The CIS is, factually, getting seriously old and I, too, have latent fear of parts scarcity (try sourcing a WUR, yikes!). But for me, so far so good, even here in Cali, the land of CARB bureaucrats and inane emission legislation. I have no idea if I'm just living on borrowed time or if the CIS will eventually cost me. But for these years, it's been flawless (I've also been told to use a regular regimen of Stabil to help the CIS bits stay healthy).

Summary: the experience must be, um, experienced. Direct and unboosted steering precision, unboosted brakes that feel like my feet are connected to the contact patches, go-cart tossability that has you seeing regular turns as apexes and track-out points. And the sound ...the sound! It all sounds great when we addicts here in RL land gush over these little gems, but the truth is you gotta snag a ride in one to be sure (tell us where you're located). Sounds like you're already headed over to the dark side, but you really are considering a sea-change in car experience between the two. Let us know how it works out!!

Edward

mausone46

here is my 3,2 1986/915/930-20 no kats
almost in original condition as it leaves the Werk in Zuffenhausen 1986
I love it also because I feel like times as never passed away



a 993 is a Rolls in compare ;-)