Steam Driver

I have run into a problem with retrofitting new brake lines to the SC. Fronts at this point, but no doubt the rears also.

When this car was converted to SS lines it must have been back in the days when no application-specific SS lines were available. What this car has is some kind of adapter (aluminum, I think) between the steel line from the carbody and the SS line, then the same thing at the other end to mate with the hard line to the caliper. The stock retainer and clip was used, although in swapped positions. The flats on the adapter are not metric, they're 11/16.
The SS line mates to these at each end via a normal flare nut sort of fitting which also has non-metric flats.

The issue is that I cannot get the Porsche steel lines to break free of the aluminum adapters. I have the proper flare wrenches, and I've been Kroiling them for days, but they will not come loose and even with the tubing wrenches the nuts are heading for damage. I can forsee this being like one of those household plumbing projects that starts with the toilet tank and ends up digging up the street!

Ideas? Suggestions? I'm wondering if the prudent thing to do might be to try and run down replacements for the SS lines that match the adapters and leave everything in place.

I will post (edit to this post) some images of the situation when I get to it.

Amber Gramps

Let's get rid of all the Mickey Mouse adapters and do this right. I just did this a couple months ago front and back.

Replacing the hard lines on the bananas should be mandatory. http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/...RKhyd_pg2.htm# Nothing could make your job simpler than doing it right and springing for this. It's $10.00 per side and simple to install.

If I recall the shortest double flare hard line available at Napa, Pep, Autozone was 12", while the correct one is like 8-1/2" and is pre-bent almost perfectly.

Steam Driver

I think you're right about getting rid of the adapters. My concern is the hassle of the hard lines. Particularly the longer one from the distribution block to the left side in the front, which is NLA and would have to be made.

It's been suggested by a machinist I know that I used an oxy-cetylene rig with a pinpoint tip to heat the AL adapters very hot and that that should free up the threaded joint. He says he's never seen a situation where this wouldn't work. The catch is that there's only about a 50 degree difference between AL being solid and melting. So I may try that this weekend. I'm not going to worry too much about the melting part, since I want to be rid of them anyway.

wildcat077

Paul,

Use a propane torch with MAPP gas,it burns hotter than regular propane but will not melt anything ...
I use it all the time to free up stuck/rusted parts,don't be affraid to heat it and it will loosen up !

Cheers !
Phil

Steam Driver

I'm going to give that a try this weekend. Meantime another issue has cropped up that was unexpected.

Although the fluid seemed to flow freely when I emptied the system (i.e. removed the calipers) I cannot blow it out or flush with alcohol. I can get air to blow from side to side, but the line from the M/C to the distribution block seems to be plugged. Is this common? I going to have to R&R the fuel tank anyway so I shouldn't have a lot of trouble replacing it, but it was unexpected. None of the fluid I've seen so far seemed like an issue. Does this stuff gel over time.

I tried running safety wire through it from the top end, but it's not quite stiff enough apparently. Only got passed that first sharp bend at the top and it jammed up. And 100 psi air won't do a thing.

wildcat077

I think your model has an inline proportioning valve from the master cylinder to the rear brake circuit,it should be situated somewhere near the smuggler's box,maybe that is what is restricting the flow ... you would want to disconnect the proportioning valve and blow air through the circuit passed the valve.
Might be worth taking a look !

Cheers !
Phil

Steam Driver

In-line proportioning valve? Wow, that's interesting; nothing like that is shown in the parts drawing at all. Nothing like that is visible up top. I'll look into that though, thanks.

On the positive side the calipers came apart (i.e. pistons came out) easily with compressed air and the pistons and bores are in good shape. So they should rebuild OK. Also along that line I (finally) found the disc brake assembly lube. I've been looking for that for years (other projects) as about every manual talks about it but inquiries at local auto parts places only brings quizzical looks from their employees. Permatex product, Advance Auto Parts.

theiceman

Aluminum to steel corrosion is on of the worst .. Aluminum is great for automotive as it is strong and light, but has real issues when steel gets bonded to it. Ever get an aluminum mag stuck on a steel hub?, or a steel bolt out of aluminum housing? its a real nighmare.

You could of course just cut through the flxible brake line on the car and take the whole caliper with brake line hanging off to have removed profesionally, but still leaves you with the other piece on the car to deal with.

id love to see a couple pics just to see what ur dealing with.

Steam Driver

OK, Iceman and all, here is a picture of what I'm dealing with. The SS line mates to the left side of this adapter thing. It is not AL, as I first thought, but is some kind of steel; definitely magnetic. I'm guessing some kind of SS alloy though because as you can see it shows no signs of rust/corrosion.

The same thing is at the brake end, just turned around.

The calipers are removed; the stock steel line came out of them easily. I just can't get rid of these adapter things to put the stock hoses back on.

ivangene

the stock brake lines are threaded to accept the nipple on the right side line - no adapter needed

Amber Gramps

Pull the clip on the adapter, anchor the fitting on the line with a good quality flare nut wrench, torque the crap out of the adapter until it surrenders. It is very common for the fitting on the end of the brake line to seize onto the brake line itself. If you are simply trying to turn the end of the brake line you are fighting two points of pressure rather than one. Pull the clip and spin the adapter.

theiceman

a little bit of blue wrench will go a long way here...
pull the clip and see if it will move out of the bracket. if not get something with a slit in it to slide over the bracket and protect the body. a little bit of heat will expand that adapter and you will be able to crack it .

this is a classic example of people not paying attention to torque settings. Takes very little torque setting to seal the flare nut .. but over do it and the next time you go to take it off this is what you have to deal with.

Steam Driver

I will get back to the heat thing this weekend, using oxy-cetylene instead of propane. I've been Kroiling the things for a good while now but that doesn't seem to be helping any.

On another front of this issue, when I tried blowing compressed air through the lines I had no luck at all - from the M/C down. I can blow air from side to side however. A colleague at work said to try brake parts cleaner, spraying it down the line. That didn't work so then I tried slipping a piece of 1/4-inch neoprene tubing over the flare at the top end and filling that with brake parts cleaner. (I jammed the top end in one of the slots in the decklid edge to hold it.) I also marked the level.

About half-hour later I went to look at this rig and there was about an inch of amber "stuff" on top of the clear parts cleaner, and little globules of "stuff" were floating up the line, like oil seeping from a shipwreck or something. So something is being dissolved. After awhile I changed all that fluid out and by this morning the level had gone down about half way, so the BP cleaner is going someplace. So maybe, just maybe, I can dissolve this away. Interesting; I would have never thought brake fluid would have set up that way. Considering that I'm looking forward to the front to rear line for sure.

The only good (?) thing about this is that since I had planned on removing the fuel tank and engine anyway replacing the front line and maybe the front rear line should be facilitated a little.

theiceman

i would go with propane for this application NOT oxyacetaline. you dont need it cherry red and you are not removing studs. Start with least aggresive and just put a propane torch on it for 5-15 seconds .. you are trying to just expand the adapter a little so it will crack open.

ivangene

amber "stuff" is most likely rust

brake fluid is hygroscopic - if left in too long it will rust to the point of becoming a real problem - I would replace those lines

lines are really cheap - I would be replacing a as many of them as I could get access to