My first Porsche... with pics and a question
11-04-2011, 02:45 AM
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My first Porsche... with pics and a question
Apologies in advance if you saw my post on the PP forum. I had to get my user id sorted out here before I could post... I'll try to keep it brief and not too sappy.
I wasn't really in the market for a Porsche, though I have always had 911 ownership on my bucket list. But my long-term 1970 BMW 2002 project hit a wall last May and I've been waiting on the time and motivation to tackle a full rebuild of my now EFI/turbocharged 2002. I guess with all that time on my hands I couldn't help but looking around the usual internet sites for 911s for sale. Like I mentioned, I wasn't really in the market and I always thought I would end up with a long hood hotrod or an '84+ coupe. But something about the 1978 911SC I saw on craigslist in Iowa called to me. Description was brief but to the point and no BS... brown and a targa... and had been listed for almost a month. Wrong color and probably something wrong with it since it hadn't sold. Price was about what you would expect for a nicer '78...
Not to sound too cheesy, but I actually had a dream about the car and couldn't help but call on it. From my research here and from Mr. Zimmerman's book I had a list of things that I would want to see done on an 80,000 mile SC (tensioner upgrade, etc)...
PO was a PCA member, had extensive records including the original window sticker and receipts for upgrades. He pretty much rattled off everything on my list of desirable upgrades. I schmoozed the wife, diverted funds from the BMW project and flew up to look it over...
The Good:
Bitter Chocolate looks much better in person and changes color based on the type of light... looks really good with the silver targa bar and chrome trim
Full folder of receipts/window sticker/original literature and owner's manual
80,000+ miles, 2 PCA owners
Relatively lightweight, no power windows, no cruise, no ac...
Factory sport seats and LSD
Head studs replaced, 964 cams, SSI/sport muffler, turbo tie rods, upgraded oil cooler
H4 headlights, rs style bumpers, 15x7 & 15x8 Fuchs, upgraded chain tensioners
Refurbished Targa Dan top, new clutch <20000 miles ago, crack-free dash
The bad:
Lots of rock chips in front, messy decklid respray in back
Dent in gas tank, poor sounding stereo/speakers, needs tires (hard to find suitable 15" tires)
2nd gear synchro is a little finicky
insulation in engine bay is falling down/deteriorating
It really was one of those times you just get a feeling about a seller and about a car... With another offer waiting in the wings I did the unthinkable... I went with my gut and the strength of the documentation and bought it on the spot.
Drove home 9+ hours with no issues, used a negligible amount of oil, no smoking and no drips in the garage after almost 2 weeks and 1000 miles. Had my local indy shop check things over and got two thumbs up!
To do list:
Needs a ducktail
Shifter bushings/shift kit
Tires
New stereo/speakers
Eventually repaint front bumper
Here are some photos, feel free to point out any obvious shortcomings I have missed....
And now the QUESTION:
On cooler days (50's to 60's), it takes a really long time to warm up to operating temp (180-190). Driving 15-20 minutes at revs not exceeding 4000 rpm it will barely make it to 180. Seems slower than expected. I did notice it has an upgraded oil cooler in the right front wheel well... no fan or shroud just the bare cooler.
Is this the expected amount of time to reach full operating temperature? Thanks in advance!
I wasn't really in the market for a Porsche, though I have always had 911 ownership on my bucket list. But my long-term 1970 BMW 2002 project hit a wall last May and I've been waiting on the time and motivation to tackle a full rebuild of my now EFI/turbocharged 2002. I guess with all that time on my hands I couldn't help but looking around the usual internet sites for 911s for sale. Like I mentioned, I wasn't really in the market and I always thought I would end up with a long hood hotrod or an '84+ coupe. But something about the 1978 911SC I saw on craigslist in Iowa called to me. Description was brief but to the point and no BS... brown and a targa... and had been listed for almost a month. Wrong color and probably something wrong with it since it hadn't sold. Price was about what you would expect for a nicer '78...
Not to sound too cheesy, but I actually had a dream about the car and couldn't help but call on it. From my research here and from Mr. Zimmerman's book I had a list of things that I would want to see done on an 80,000 mile SC (tensioner upgrade, etc)...
PO was a PCA member, had extensive records including the original window sticker and receipts for upgrades. He pretty much rattled off everything on my list of desirable upgrades. I schmoozed the wife, diverted funds from the BMW project and flew up to look it over...
The Good:
Bitter Chocolate looks much better in person and changes color based on the type of light... looks really good with the silver targa bar and chrome trim
Full folder of receipts/window sticker/original literature and owner's manual
80,000+ miles, 2 PCA owners
Relatively lightweight, no power windows, no cruise, no ac...
Factory sport seats and LSD
Head studs replaced, 964 cams, SSI/sport muffler, turbo tie rods, upgraded oil cooler
H4 headlights, rs style bumpers, 15x7 & 15x8 Fuchs, upgraded chain tensioners
Refurbished Targa Dan top, new clutch <20000 miles ago, crack-free dash
The bad:
Lots of rock chips in front, messy decklid respray in back
Dent in gas tank, poor sounding stereo/speakers, needs tires (hard to find suitable 15" tires)
2nd gear synchro is a little finicky
insulation in engine bay is falling down/deteriorating
It really was one of those times you just get a feeling about a seller and about a car... With another offer waiting in the wings I did the unthinkable... I went with my gut and the strength of the documentation and bought it on the spot.
Drove home 9+ hours with no issues, used a negligible amount of oil, no smoking and no drips in the garage after almost 2 weeks and 1000 miles. Had my local indy shop check things over and got two thumbs up!
To do list:
Needs a ducktail
Shifter bushings/shift kit
Tires
New stereo/speakers
Eventually repaint front bumper
Here are some photos, feel free to point out any obvious shortcomings I have missed....
And now the QUESTION:
On cooler days (50's to 60's), it takes a really long time to warm up to operating temp (180-190). Driving 15-20 minutes at revs not exceeding 4000 rpm it will barely make it to 180. Seems slower than expected. I did notice it has an upgraded oil cooler in the right front wheel well... no fan or shroud just the bare cooler.
Is this the expected amount of time to reach full operating temperature? Thanks in advance!
11-04-2011, 06:21 AM
#5
Addict
Love it. 
Now drop the front a touch, put a surfboard rack on it, and the duck, and drive it 'till the wheels fall off.
....and the temp thing....If you have a Carrera cooler with a working fan and it's 50 out, it ain't gonna get hot fast, if at all.
Now drop the front a touch, put a surfboard rack on it, and the duck, and drive it 'till the wheels fall off.
....and the temp thing....If you have a Carrera cooler with a working fan and it's 50 out, it ain't gonna get hot fast, if at all.
11-04-2011, 09:05 AM
#6
Drifting
Looks great fromt he photos and I like the interior with the center console delete.
I have a finned oil cooler on mine and it takes about 15 minutes to reach operatng Temp if it's 50 or lower out side depending on highway speeds.
I have a finned oil cooler on mine and it takes about 15 minutes to reach operatng Temp if it's 50 or lower out side depending on highway speeds.
11-04-2011, 09:45 AM
#7
Parts Specialist
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
the larger oil capacity is why its taking longer to warm up, but I think after 5 minutes you should be OK even if the guage reads a little low, the motor is warm (surely after 10)
what a great looking car!!!
as for the bushings and syncro's try changing trans fluid...and if you want one of my shift couplers let me know..they rock the socks of the stock ones!
https://rennlist.com/forums/911-foru...il-change.html
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...-ala-ed-m.html
what a great looking car!!!
as for the bushings and syncro's try changing trans fluid...and if you want one of my shift couplers let me know..they rock the socks of the stock ones!
https://rennlist.com/forums/911-foru...il-change.html
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...-ala-ed-m.html
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11-04-2011, 10:10 AM
#8
Team Owner
Dont worry about it everything is fine .. sometimes my car never hits 180 for Months on end
from October to March so dont sweat it . As long as the needle lifts off the bottom after 5 minutes or so everything is as it should be . You will learn your car as you go . BTW Brown Targas rock ....
from October to March so dont sweat it . As long as the needle lifts off the bottom after 5 minutes or so everything is as it should be . You will learn your car as you go . BTW Brown Targas rock ....
Last edited by theiceman; 01-09-2013 at 10:13 AM.
11-04-2011, 11:29 AM
#9
Looks like the little guy has a new favorite car. Just wait until he asks for the keys! My first car was a '73 2002 and I still miss it. Have you noticed that they smell the same on the inside or is that just my fuzzy memory?
I have also noted the slow warmup in cold conditions and wondered how it would affect checking the oil since my baseline readings have all been at full operating temps (as in my sig).
I have also noted the slow warmup in cold conditions and wondered how it would affect checking the oil since my baseline readings have all been at full operating temps (as in my sig).
11-04-2011, 12:12 PM
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That is a great looking color - not a fan of most browns but that one works. Good score.
Interesting to see the 100% brown interior - mine is two tone brown and cork(?).
The temperature gauge on my 80 SC barely moves. As long as you are able to check once in a while that it is getting to temperature I wouldn't really worry about it too much.
And for whatever reassurance it is to you I bought mine in almost the same manner. After talking with the PO and going for a test drive I decided to buy it - to heck with the PPI. Very happy and 15000 miles since the purchase have yet to find any 'hidden' issues - I don't count an alternator dying as something hidden.\
Enjoy and drive it.
jb
Interesting to see the 100% brown interior - mine is two tone brown and cork(?).
The temperature gauge on my 80 SC barely moves. As long as you are able to check once in a while that it is getting to temperature I wouldn't really worry about it too much.
And for whatever reassurance it is to you I bought mine in almost the same manner. After talking with the PO and going for a test drive I decided to buy it - to heck with the PPI. Very happy and 15000 miles since the purchase have yet to find any 'hidden' issues - I don't count an alternator dying as something hidden.\
Enjoy and drive it.
jb
11-04-2011, 01:13 PM
#12
Nice find. I'm 1978 911SC owner, too. Love the classic '70s brown. Don't see it very often. Sports seats are a nice bonus. I'm not a fan of the bumpers without the rest of the IROC package. Congrats. Looks well purchased. Slick 2002 as well.
Brett
Brett
11-04-2011, 01:27 PM
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The car looks great, I am also a 78SC targa owner. As for the 2nd gear syncro, are you sure it is bad, the 915 trans is notorious for being like that. I though that mine had an issue as well but after a great deal of reading I found or seemed to find that, the first to second shift has to be done almost flawlessly. As for the rock chips, i will say this S*** happens when you drive a car. As for the insulation, 30 year old foamy stuff has a life time like every thing else. Mine is for all intensive purposes gone all together. I will admit the car is loud some times, but nothing makes me feel young again (and im only 20) like turning off the stereo and listening to the engine roar. As for the gas tank dent, I would not worry that much, I would however check to make sure there are no cracks in the tank.
The shifter bushings will make a big difference. You seem like quite a mechanical guy and have probability done all this but when I got my SC I immediately replaced the, spark plugs, distributor rotter and cap, oil, oil filter, fuel filter, air filter, trans fluid, and topped off all other fluids. It made a noticeable difference in performance and cost less than 100$ to do all of it.
most importantly welcome to P-Car ownership
regards
Dave
The shifter bushings will make a big difference. You seem like quite a mechanical guy and have probability done all this but when I got my SC I immediately replaced the, spark plugs, distributor rotter and cap, oil, oil filter, fuel filter, air filter, trans fluid, and topped off all other fluids. It made a noticeable difference in performance and cost less than 100$ to do all of it.
most importantly welcome to P-Car ownership
regards
Dave
11-04-2011, 01:36 PM
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Thanks all, nice to see there is some love for 70's brown... funny I wouldn't have picked that color if I was ordering in 1978 but on the right car I've fallen for it's kind of funky vibe. I'll keep you in mind Ivangene when I can stop driving long enough to tear the shifter and linkage apart, think winter snow.
Glad to confirm that my oil temp behavior is normal... better than running too hot.
On the day I returned from picking up the Porsche, I took off the top and picked my 4 year old up at school... I'll never forget the look on his face when he saw the car for the first time. He literally invents reasons to go for a drive. I've taught him well!
Glad to confirm that my oil temp behavior is normal... better than running too hot.
On the day I returned from picking up the Porsche, I took off the top and picked my 4 year old up at school... I'll never forget the look on his face when he saw the car for the first time. He literally invents reasons to go for a drive. I've taught him well!
11-04-2011, 01:42 PM
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The car looks great, I am also a 78SC targa owner. As for the 2nd gear syncro, are you sure it is bad, the 915 trans is notorious for being like that. I though that mine had an issue as well but after a great deal of reading I found or seemed to find that, the first to second shift has to be done almost flawlessly. As for the rock chips, i will say this S*** happens when you drive a car. As for the insulation, 30 year old foamy stuff has a life time like every thing else. Mine is for all intensive purposes gone all together. I will admit the car is loud some times, but nothing makes me feel young again (and im only 20) like turning off the stereo and listening to the engine roar. As for the gas tank dent, I would not worry that much, I would however check to make sure there are no cracks in the tank.
The shifter bushings will make a big difference. You seem like quite a mechanical guy and have probability done all this but when I got my SC I immediately replaced the, spark plugs, distributor rotter and cap, oil, oil filter, fuel filter, air filter, trans fluid, and topped off all other fluids. It made a noticeable difference in performance and cost less than 100$ to do all of it.
most importantly welcome to P-Car ownership
regards
Dave
The shifter bushings will make a big difference. You seem like quite a mechanical guy and have probability done all this but when I got my SC I immediately replaced the, spark plugs, distributor rotter and cap, oil, oil filter, fuel filter, air filter, trans fluid, and topped off all other fluids. It made a noticeable difference in performance and cost less than 100$ to do all of it.
most importantly welcome to P-Car ownership
regards
Dave
