charleedog

Hey guys

Been a lurker for a while, and I occasionally post on 6SpeedOnline w. same username (charleedog)...

Wondering if anyone could chime in on this:

I am considering purchasing a nice example of a g50 '87 3.2 Coupe (with a few tasteful mods, ie. RUF wheels, turbo suspension & brakes, etc.)

This MAY be replacing my daily-driver, which at the moment is a 1993 968 Coupe.

Some context (feel free to skim) :
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I live on Vancouver Island. We get S-loads of rain, pretty much year round. The 968 with my current tires (Conti's) & suspension setup handles the rain no sweat. It's actually even more fun in the wet :-)

I picked up the 968 about a year ago, when I was at the time daily-driving my 996TT (Stage 2 and H&R springs). The Turbo was "passable" as a DD in the rain, but just barely, and it was honestly a major pain in the a$$ to limp it around everywhere if it was even remotely wet.

I'm sure in stock form the Turbo's great in the rain. Definitely not with my current ride height/suspension. And the giant 295mm contact patches in the back don't help much with this, either.

Anyway, after months of grinning & baring (and a few hairy experiences) in the TT, I decided to make it a weekend car and find a DD. The 968 fit/s the bill just fine and then some.

But... I just have that late-80s 911 "itch" - and I'm sure I don't have to explain it on a place like this

(Drove a 3.2 once and I LOVE the go-kart feel. And the sound. Totally different experience)

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Anyway, as I mentioned above, I've found a local 3.2 that I could definitely see potentially as my next DD, possibly replacing the 968.

Question is... am I dreaming? Is it too easy to get into trouble with an early 911 in the rain - say for example unintentionally hitting a puddle mid corner on an exit ramp, etc?

My heart is saying "just buy it!" but my head is saying "it's gonna rain for 6 months straight starting October"...

Any 3.2 owners from the Pacific NW that wanna chime in here?

Would be most appreciative...

Thanks!

-Chris

PS And yes, I know the ideal scenario is "just keep the 968 add the 3.2 to the stable..."

My wife barely tolerates my having 2 porsches, so I think 3 is probably out of the question. It comes down to the 968 vs the 3.2...

AdamIsAdam

subscribed. I'm interested in hearing replies on this.

redridge

The 911 is a great car in inclement weather... In the winter your gonna need snow tires, it's all in the tires, but The rear engine layout gives the 3.2 plenty of traction.

theiceman

Not much snow in Vancouver.

Bottom line is this .. you are gonna get the ra ra ra Porsche is great stories but all emotion aside this is a rear engines car with rear wheel drive, you are gonna have to be carefull. A ton of it will come down to driver skill and not changing the momentum of the car in corners and bends. It will give decent traction and you wont have the turbo instant on that can be scary but if the back does come around in the rain with all that weight your gonna have your hands full and remember you have no driver assists.

I am a lot more carefull in the rain obviously and i do find the LSD option hugely helpfull in the rain on acceleration and especially on decel into the corners. Living in BC I am sure you know a lot is gonna have to do with tire selection

Good luck.

ivangene

driver is the variable

My car loves the crappy rainy pacific northwest, while a friend of mine crashed recently on an on ramp and hit the barrier, then a bus!

personally I prefer the 911 over my SUV because of the feedback, I know exactly what each tire is doing. I aksede exactly what happened and it was an obvious driver error and yet the comment, "I tried everything" still came out. Yea, everything except the right thing.

I suggest coming down to a few of our drivers skills days in Bremerton...$65/day about once /month money/time WELL SPENT!

Jay Gratton

First, welcome to Rennlist. Always like to see new folks posting.

If you think driving an AWD 911 in wet weather is a bad DD, then you are going to hate the '87. Keep the 968. Not to burst your bubble, just being honest.

theiceman

Good point Jay didnt realize the turbo was AWD.

TroyN

I'm not sure why a 911 would be different than a 968 as long as you have good all-season tires. The 911, in my opinion, is much more forgiving than people make them out to be. I drove my SC around with summer/perf Bridgestones and it was great in the rain. The one thing I might worry about DD'ing in the winter is the defrost.

ivangene

his 996 is AWD...I dont think the 968 is....

and I dont think the 3.2 is a bad choice for the rain and 1-2 snow days every other year... I have been daily driving mine for 1.5 years and as stated love it...some things to keep in mind, the heat is great but the defrost can be a little weak...if you get any moisture inside it will steam up and if you are sitting in traffic (or in the paddock) with all the fans running at idle you can kill the battery (ask me how I know)

good tires make a huge difference. I am on the Conti extreme DW (dry/wet) they also make a DWS for the snow. I dont plan to put on winter tires this year but in the 996 I ran snow tires (blizzak)

wildcat077

All i could offer for advice is stay away from Targas and get the Coupe ... you don't need a leaking roof ... BIG $$$ to fix
I find the 911's are good in the rain as i was really impressed at how my 89 Coupe handled on a wet racetrack and once you figure out how to use the heater/defroster system you should be good to go in the rain.
Make sure you replace all ignition wires,plugs and distributor cap with a good quality (Magnecore) and original Bosch cap !

Cheers !
Phil

ivangene

yes, I have rode the bumper of more than one 996 C4S and even 996TT thru the twisties on track in the rain....

actually surprised me how well she hugged the corners in the wet, surprised a few AWD owners too

Carrera51

I drove my 3.2 Carrera as a daily driver until I turned it into a club race car. With good all season tires it was fine. The previous owner drove it year round as a DD unless there was snow on the ground. Like others have said, the defroster was a little on the weak side, but I think the 87-89 HVAC is supposed to be better than what I 84 had. Though it is hard to beat the utility of a 968/944 variant for daily duty.

500

I think the 911 would be fine actually, but I have driven two 968s and they are very, very good cars. Certainly an underrated Porsche.

charleedog

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the helpful replies - much appreciated...

A few responses:

I agree fully. I'd say in 2nd place to driver skill is tire selection. Seems like the right tires and not driving like an **** seem to be the recurring theme here. Sounds like those Conti D/W tires are really working out for you, I'll try those as well if I go with this car.

I should probably add that the 996TT AWD has 600HP +/- with a rock-hard, lowered track suspension and PS2's. That was how it was being driven in the rain. Hence why I found it "unsettling".

Both my previous DD (E46 M3) and my current 968 are extremely tail-happy in the rain. RWD is not a problem, and I don't push limits in weather anyway. I'm not a track star but I've been driving performance cars every day for several years, and I don't rely on aides like AWD or PSM to rescue me from collisions. I rely on using common sense, instead.

What I'm really after here is whether the 3.2 is inherently unstable in the wet if I'm just driving it from A to B. I have no plans to push its envelope in the wet. Just wondering if, for example, at speeds around 90 KM/H on the highway hitting a patch of water will send it spinning into the guardrails.

Or if, at about 50 - 65 KM/H on an entrance/exit ramp, hitting a slick patch or puddle will upset the balance enough to initiate the dreaded pendulum swing of the rear end.

The 968 and M3 are front-engine, so you can't really compare them. With those cars, getting out of trouble = lift throttle.

The 996TT AWD just shimmies around in the rain because, admittedly, it's using summer track tires - but even then, all it takes is slowing down 10 - 20% in the conditions and you're essentially fine (although the "shimmying" never goes away, it just becomes an annoyance rather than a danger). And yes, I know using PS2's in the wet is retarded, hence why I have a DD.

VERY good point. This will definitely be a factor... maybe there's an aftermarket solution for this, possibly?

Under-rated indeed. I think it really depends what you're going for, but I'd argue that a novice driver would be 30% faster around a track in a 968 than he would in a 911. They are just so predictable and somehow "comfortable" at the limit.

Rev-matching on downshifts is a breeze in the 968 with the combo of a well-sorted transmission, gearing and the quick-snap throttle response of the 3.0 4cyl. Has decent torque down-low, and once the cams/timing change at around 4000RPM the thing actually has some grunt. Very similar to an E36 M3.

Handling is awesome. It's not nearly as capable as my 996TT, but it's more neutral and tossable. It's a car where, to an extent, you can just react as needed. The steering could stand to have more feedback, and the initial body-roll on turn in definitely feels a little dated compared to, say, an E46 M3. (Could also use about 50 - 60 more HP, IMO).

The bottom-line is that the 968 just so easy to take to the limit - pass the limit - and bring it back to or below the limit at will, and at least in my experience, it does all this with minimal drama. You always know what the car is going to do.

Which makes it useable and reliable - but at the cost of DRIVER INVOLVEMENT.

I think a lot of people "enjoy" or "really like" their 968/944 variants. Selling them is bittersweet. But making somebody sell their 911 is like removing their thumbs. Life just isn't the same without a 911.

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So it seems like the 3.2 can, with the right tires and a close look at the heater/defrost system, handle the crappy Pacific NorthWest climate like a champ...

Thanks for all the input guys

-Chris

Ian Ledger

Great fun on my '87 3.2 , Good Pirellis N rated and driven like a motorcycle i.e.keep the power on through bends. Slow in, fast out.
Ian