Cost of Maintaining a late 80's 911
09-05-2011, 01:55 PM
#16
Track Day
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You guys are putting my mind at ease buying one of these cars. The cost of ownership isn't as high as I was thinking and I know it's all subjective. I'm glad I ask the question.
09-05-2011, 02:16 PM
#17
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I have a '73. I drive about 3-4,000 miles/year.
I plan on about $3-500/year for ordinary maintenance/upkeep (tune ups, oil changes, valve adjustments, electrical gremlins, paint chips etc) and a $1-5,000 major repair (Valve replacement, Clutch replacement, Targa top rebuild, transmission rebuild, major suspension work etc) every year.
I do the simple things myself and let a local wrench take care of some of the complex/nasty jobs that I do not have the skills/specilaized tools on hand to perform.
I plan on about $3-500/year for ordinary maintenance/upkeep (tune ups, oil changes, valve adjustments, electrical gremlins, paint chips etc) and a $1-5,000 major repair (Valve replacement, Clutch replacement, Targa top rebuild, transmission rebuild, major suspension work etc) every year.
I do the simple things myself and let a local wrench take care of some of the complex/nasty jobs that I do not have the skills/specilaized tools on hand to perform.
09-05-2011, 03:15 PM
#18
Brett
09-05-2011, 03:26 PM
#19
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The car was in excellent shape when I bought and sold it. It's the inbetween part that got costly for me. Yes, I had a PPI done prior to purchasing.
09-05-2011, 04:18 PM
#20
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Certainly not meant to be misleading, in fact full disclosure! I'll freely admit that I've spent a ton of money on Ruby over 10 years, but much wasnt needed. At the end of a decade, it averages out to $4k a year on top of the cost of the car. If i played expensive golf courses or skied a lot, I'd easily spend that kind of money and not have anything tangible to show for it.
My boats have cost me exponential $ more, so I view this as a relatively "cheap" hobby. Cough.
My boats have cost me exponential $ more, so I view this as a relatively "cheap" hobby. Cough.
09-05-2011, 04:47 PM
#21
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I'd say that if you are paying someone to maintain a well-sorted car, you should budget $2-3k per year. Over a longer term, that will cover things like brake rebuilds, new clutch, etc. As noted above, you can spend a lot less doing things yourself.
For instance, I cannot fathom spending $600 for a valve adjust. This is a simple and enjoyable way to spend a morning or afternoon under their car.
For instance, I cannot fathom spending $600 for a valve adjust. This is a simple and enjoyable way to spend a morning or afternoon under their car.
09-05-2011, 09:37 PM
#23
Normal routine maintenance is not that much (oil changes, valve adjustments, timing/mixture adjustments, distributor cap and rotor, spark plugs, transmission gear oil changes, brake pads), but it's just that it's a 20+ year old car with a lot of 20+ year old parts. There's a lot of non-routine stuff that may come due. Brake calipers may need a rebuild; suspension bushings may need to be redone; you may break a head stud; the top end may need to be refreshed; the whole engine may need to be rebuilt; the 1st and 2nd gear synchros may need to be redone; or the whole transmission may need to be gone through; clutch; distributor rebuild; alternator; fuel injectors; fuel pump. Some of these may be de-risked by a PPI or through records, but everything cannot be. It's very difficult to judge what it's going to cost when these non-routine items loom. Then there's the cost to just keep the thing rolling down the road versus the cost to keep it going properly... They could be very different.
Brett
Brett
09-05-2011, 11:05 PM
#24
Drifting
I would say its a stinking blur of cash out lay but that's because I cant leave "well enough" alone and the maintenance gets blurred with the mods, upgrades and wants
that and what has been done, not done and neglected by the previous 25 years worth of owners
My car has records back to day one...and the very nice gentleman from Switzerland did a stand up job taking great care of her - I would not have the heart to show him the car now....although all reversible I have made quite a few changes to the ole girl
that and what has been done, not done and neglected by the previous 25 years worth of owners
My car has records back to day one...and the very nice gentleman from Switzerland did a stand up job taking great care of her - I would not have the heart to show him the car now....although all reversible I have made quite a few changes to the ole girl
I hear you ... lol
The person i bought my car from three years ago would most likely have a stroke if he saw what has been done to his stock granny driven 911 !!!
I'm into it for over $15.000 in upgrades,all reversible by the way as i kept the original parts but i can't leave good enough alone either
Don't want to scare you Dan,but these cars grow on you ...
Cheers !
Phil
09-06-2011, 10:52 AM
#25
Drifting
09-06-2011, 04:48 PM
#26
RL Community Team
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I am hardly a good candidate for answering this question, as my car is in the midst of a comprehensive refresh which is going well beyond “necessary” work.
However, I think the big picture is thus:
1) These are very reliable cars
2) A lot of routine maintenance is well within the abilities of a reasonably handy individual
3) But here is the rub: These cars are over 20 years old now and many of them will need significant investment to restore them to “as new” condition
The keys are whether you get a car that has already had a lot of this investment done, or one in which it is still coming. Also, there is some subjectivity involved in deciding when some of this work is due. A good example are suspension bushings: I have not seen anything that disabuses me of the notion that any original rubber suspension bushings in these cars will be pretty much shot by now. However, do you REALLY need to replace them now? That depends: It may just mean that you will have a harsher ride than it should be (but it can also mean torsion bar rubbing on the front bars – not so benign).
Another potential bugaboo is the top-end rebuild. Many (but likely not all) cars will “need” these before 150K, mainly to replace worn valve guide bushings (and possibly to remedy broken head studs). Even done at a minimal level, this is an expensive job. However, you can have cars that desperately need this work now, and others that are gradually getting there, but still have some mileage before it HAS to be done (oil consumption tells the tale). A part of it will also depend on how picky you are.
So, strong, reliable cars? Yes.
Getting old? Yes.
Your best bet is to find a very well documented and cared for car, which has already had many items taken care of in the recent past. Paying a “high price” for a car like this will often prove to be the most economical route!
However, I think the big picture is thus:
1) These are very reliable cars
2) A lot of routine maintenance is well within the abilities of a reasonably handy individual
3) But here is the rub: These cars are over 20 years old now and many of them will need significant investment to restore them to “as new” condition
The keys are whether you get a car that has already had a lot of this investment done, or one in which it is still coming. Also, there is some subjectivity involved in deciding when some of this work is due. A good example are suspension bushings: I have not seen anything that disabuses me of the notion that any original rubber suspension bushings in these cars will be pretty much shot by now. However, do you REALLY need to replace them now? That depends: It may just mean that you will have a harsher ride than it should be (but it can also mean torsion bar rubbing on the front bars – not so benign).
Another potential bugaboo is the top-end rebuild. Many (but likely not all) cars will “need” these before 150K, mainly to replace worn valve guide bushings (and possibly to remedy broken head studs). Even done at a minimal level, this is an expensive job. However, you can have cars that desperately need this work now, and others that are gradually getting there, but still have some mileage before it HAS to be done (oil consumption tells the tale). A part of it will also depend on how picky you are.
So, strong, reliable cars? Yes.
Getting old? Yes.
Your best bet is to find a very well documented and cared for car, which has already had many items taken care of in the recent past. Paying a “high price” for a car like this will often prove to be the most economical route!
09-06-2011, 07:13 PM
#27
Drifting
I'm reading The Used 911 story and I'm a little concerned on what it will actually take to drive and maintain a late 80"s 911. I know I wont be putting more than 8K a year on the car but I don't know these car's.
The book goes into detail on what it takes to take proper care of these cars and what could happen when they are not taken care of. So, I'm concerned about two things.
1. was the care taken care of before I bought it and what will I be stuck with when something goes wrong. I do plan on having a PPI done prior to me buying one.
2. what can I expect for yearly maintenance cost based on my estimated 8k miles per year.
BTW. I'm annal about keeping my vehicles well maintained and I don't want to get in over my head if you know what I mean.
Can you guys give me an idea on what to expect for yearly maintenance to run these cars.
Thanks, Dan
The book goes into detail on what it takes to take proper care of these cars and what could happen when they are not taken care of. So, I'm concerned about two things.
1. was the care taken care of before I bought it and what will I be stuck with when something goes wrong. I do plan on having a PPI done prior to me buying one.
2. what can I expect for yearly maintenance cost based on my estimated 8k miles per year.
BTW. I'm annal about keeping my vehicles well maintained and I don't want to get in over my head if you know what I mean.
Can you guys give me an idea on what to expect for yearly maintenance to run these cars.
Thanks, Dan
However, if you replace the basics, such as new suspension, exhaust components and have the car brought up to snuff. It will handle it like a champ.
09-06-2011, 08:15 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
I am hardly a good candidate for answering this question, as my car is in the midst of a comprehensive refresh which is going well beyond “necessary” work.
However, I think the big picture is thus:
1) These are very reliable cars
2) A lot of routine maintenance is well within the abilities of a reasonably handy individual
3) But here is the rub: These cars are over 20 years old now and many of them will need significant investment to restore them to “as new” condition
The keys are whether you get a car that has already had a lot of this investment done, or one in which it is still coming. Also, there is some subjectivity involved in deciding when some of this work is due. A good example are suspension bushings: I have not seen anything that disabuses me of the notion that any original rubber suspension bushings in these cars will be pretty much shot by now. However, do you REALLY need to replace them now? That depends: It may just mean that you will have a harsher ride than it should be (but it can also mean torsion bar rubbing on the front bars – not so benign).
Another potential bugaboo is the top-end rebuild. Many (but likely not all) cars will “need” these before 150K, mainly to replace worn valve guide bushings (and possibly to remedy broken head studs). Even done at a minimal level, this is an expensive job. However, you can have cars that desperately need this work now, and others that are gradually getting there, but still have some mileage before it HAS to be done (oil consumption tells the tale). A part of it will also depend on how picky you are.
So, strong, reliable cars? Yes.
Getting old? Yes.
Your best bet is to find a very well documented and cared for car, which has already had many items taken care of in the recent past. Paying a “high price” for a car like this will often prove to be the most economical route!
However, I think the big picture is thus:
1) These are very reliable cars
2) A lot of routine maintenance is well within the abilities of a reasonably handy individual
3) But here is the rub: These cars are over 20 years old now and many of them will need significant investment to restore them to “as new” condition
The keys are whether you get a car that has already had a lot of this investment done, or one in which it is still coming. Also, there is some subjectivity involved in deciding when some of this work is due. A good example are suspension bushings: I have not seen anything that disabuses me of the notion that any original rubber suspension bushings in these cars will be pretty much shot by now. However, do you REALLY need to replace them now? That depends: It may just mean that you will have a harsher ride than it should be (but it can also mean torsion bar rubbing on the front bars – not so benign).
Another potential bugaboo is the top-end rebuild. Many (but likely not all) cars will “need” these before 150K, mainly to replace worn valve guide bushings (and possibly to remedy broken head studs). Even done at a minimal level, this is an expensive job. However, you can have cars that desperately need this work now, and others that are gradually getting there, but still have some mileage before it HAS to be done (oil consumption tells the tale). A part of it will also depend on how picky you are.
So, strong, reliable cars? Yes.
Getting old? Yes.
Your best bet is to find a very well documented and cared for car, which has already had many items taken care of in the recent past. Paying a “high price” for a car like this will often prove to be the most economical route!
Great advice there. Kudos. I love my 911 RL family.
09-12-2011, 08:32 PM
#29
Track Day
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500_19B , Thanks for the advice and the tips. I will keep this in mind when I head out looking for that nice 911, hopefully, one that needs little work.
09-12-2011, 09:46 PM
#30
Advanced
Make sure that you get a good PPI done! I had one done at a shop in Ventura (the city that I bought the car in -- too far away from L.A. to use a mechanic down here) and the guy missed a lot of stuff that ended up costing me about $2900 to get the car up to par after I bought it and took it to my local Porsche guru mechanic (TLG Auto in So Cal). If I had known, I would have negotiated for a lower price to offset the cost for fixing them. Make sure the place you get the PPI done at is reputable in the Porsche community for doing good PPIs -- that's a mistake I won't repeat again.
Like others have said, these are old cars -- even though mine was in fantastic shape and had almost all of the original parts in it/on it, many of those parts needed replacing simply due to age. I now know that over the next couple thousand miles or so I'll need a clutch job and new front shocks, for instance.
Like others have said, these are old cars -- even though mine was in fantastic shape and had almost all of the original parts in it/on it, many of those parts needed replacing simply due to age. I now know that over the next couple thousand miles or so I'll need a clutch job and new front shocks, for instance.
Last edited by Headlands; 09-12-2011 at 10:39 PM.