My 1978 3.0 L head stud replacement thread
10-08-2011, 12:00 AM
#121
my condolences on the state of your bearings. i don't think i've ever seen visible metal shavings on the crank like that without catastrophic engine damage (although there was obviously serious damage before, your engine supposedly had been repaired).
your decision to open the case is looking better and better. i don't see how the engine could have kept together in its current state.
your decision to open the case is looking better and better. i don't see how the engine could have kept together in its current state.
Brett
10-08-2011, 12:01 AM
#122
Rennlist Member
I don't know. It could also be somewhat of a testament to how strong these engines are. No known symptoms seemingly, other than the broken stud, but look what was going on inside.
02-21-2012, 03:06 PM
#124
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Hey Brett,
I just read your other thread in the PP engine rebuild forum and that reminded me that your bores did have some scores on it… I had forgotten… I hope your search for good replacements yields good results. If you haven’t already, you might want to give Don Weaver at EBS a call (EBS = Engine Builder’s Supply http://www.ebsracing.com/ ).
I am getting my new Mahle P’s & C’s from him at a price that is significantly better than what I’ve seen anywhere else. Not sure if he will have your fitment available… He also seems to be knowledgeable about other options and may be a helpful person to talk to as well.
I do hope that you get good news back from the machine shop on all the other bits.
Allan
EDIT: One extra little positive about going with new Mahles (if available) is that they come complete with rings, piston pins and circlips (it all helps!!)
I just read your other thread in the PP engine rebuild forum and that reminded me that your bores did have some scores on it… I had forgotten… I hope your search for good replacements yields good results. If you haven’t already, you might want to give Don Weaver at EBS a call (EBS = Engine Builder’s Supply http://www.ebsracing.com/ ).
I am getting my new Mahle P’s & C’s from him at a price that is significantly better than what I’ve seen anywhere else. Not sure if he will have your fitment available… He also seems to be knowledgeable about other options and may be a helpful person to talk to as well.
I do hope that you get good news back from the machine shop on all the other bits.
Allan
EDIT: One extra little positive about going with new Mahles (if available) is that they come complete with rings, piston pins and circlips (it all helps!!)
02-21-2012, 06:03 PM
#126
Hey Brett,
I just read your other thread in the PP engine rebuild forum and that reminded me that your bores did have some scores on it… I had forgotten… I hope your search for good replacements yields good results. If you haven’t already, you might want to give Don Weaver at EBS a call (EBS = Engine Builder’s Supply http://www.ebsracing.com/ ).
I am getting my new Mahle P’s & C’s from him at a price that is significantly better than what I’ve seen anywhere else. Not sure if he will have your fitment available… He also seems to be knowledgeable about other options and may be a helpful person to talk to as well.
I do hope that you get good news back from the machine shop on all the other bits.
Allan
EDIT: One extra little positive about going with new Mahles (if available) is that they come complete with rings, piston pins and circlips (it all helps!!)
I just read your other thread in the PP engine rebuild forum and that reminded me that your bores did have some scores on it… I had forgotten… I hope your search for good replacements yields good results. If you haven’t already, you might want to give Don Weaver at EBS a call (EBS = Engine Builder’s Supply http://www.ebsracing.com/ ).
I am getting my new Mahle P’s & C’s from him at a price that is significantly better than what I’ve seen anywhere else. Not sure if he will have your fitment available… He also seems to be knowledgeable about other options and may be a helpful person to talk to as well.
I do hope that you get good news back from the machine shop on all the other bits.
Allan
EDIT: One extra little positive about going with new Mahles (if available) is that they come complete with rings, piston pins and circlips (it all helps!!)
Brett
02-27-2012, 02:13 PM
#127
I just met with the machine shop owner this morning to go over the parts. The shop is Motorworks in National City. It's pretty much all good news. The fellow is an older gentleman and has been in the game for a while. I'd call him old school with regard to cost issues, and he was clearly concerned with keeping costs to his customer (me) reasonable. He lamented with me over the cost of new 912 piston and cylinder sets as he's got some 912 stuff going on, saying he used to buy 912 and 356 sets for a couple hundred back in the day. He said he doesn't give out ball park estimates anymore because parts costs are rising so fast. I like him. He's a very practical guy.
Anyway, he's all about re-using what can be reasonably re-used. His recommendation for my pistons and cylinders was to re-use them. They measured fine, and he was not concerned with any wear as he assured me a honing will take care of the surface. He does want to replace one cylinder with a good used one as there was an impact mark at the top likely from a valve. The gouge was above the ring contact area, which was not a problem, but it cut into the top edge where the cylinder meets the head. He didn't like the possibility that the top edge near the head gasket could be weakened, and he felt that the head sealing could be compromised in the long-term, so he wanted to replace it. I'm fine with all of this. I'm not hot rodding this engine or planning on racing. I just want a 3.0 L that runs reasonably well, and will be good for a while once this is done. Perfectly fine with keeping the old cylinders and sourcing one good used one. This engine won't be getting many miles anyway, and stock or near stock performance is good for me.
For the heads, the valve guides were worn and will be replaced. Valves were all good and will just be reground. We will re-use the valve springs and other hardware. The cylinder/head interface will be resurfaced. Camshafts will be sent out to a grinder that he uses often. I didn't bring him my rockers thinking I'd send them myself to a Pelicanparts forum recommended person. But, I think I'll bring them in and at least let him look at them and give an opinion. We will replace the one timing chain gear on the intermediate shaft that had the chunks taken out of a couple of teeth.
The case was good. No issues. The crankshaft was also perfect. No cracks by magnaflux, and it measured to standard specs just fine with no wear issues. The rough patches on the rod journals that I thought were wear in my earlier posts were not wear, but rather they were spots of metal transfer to the journal. It's bearing metal that has stuck to the journal. It will come off with a routine polish of the journals. Lesson learned. I'll be buying a set of standard size crank and rod bearings. Whew.
The big ends of the rods were slightly enlongated and will be resized. Wrist pin bushings will be replaced. Flywheel will be resurfaced. I will have the crankshaft, flywheel, and new pressure plate assembly balanced. Rods will be balanced.
The pitting that I pointed out in the camshaft housing bearing journals is not a concern. His comment was "oil reservoirs," as I had heard from others either here or on Pelican. Everything measured fine, and the camshaft housings will be re-used.
In total, it looks like I'll be under $2000 for the machine shop part. And, I won't be taking taking out a second mortgage for new pistons and cylinders. That makes me happy. Maybe I'll rebuild my 915 with all that extra cash I'm going to have lying around. lol
Brett
Anyway, he's all about re-using what can be reasonably re-used. His recommendation for my pistons and cylinders was to re-use them. They measured fine, and he was not concerned with any wear as he assured me a honing will take care of the surface. He does want to replace one cylinder with a good used one as there was an impact mark at the top likely from a valve. The gouge was above the ring contact area, which was not a problem, but it cut into the top edge where the cylinder meets the head. He didn't like the possibility that the top edge near the head gasket could be weakened, and he felt that the head sealing could be compromised in the long-term, so he wanted to replace it. I'm fine with all of this. I'm not hot rodding this engine or planning on racing. I just want a 3.0 L that runs reasonably well, and will be good for a while once this is done. Perfectly fine with keeping the old cylinders and sourcing one good used one. This engine won't be getting many miles anyway, and stock or near stock performance is good for me.
For the heads, the valve guides were worn and will be replaced. Valves were all good and will just be reground. We will re-use the valve springs and other hardware. The cylinder/head interface will be resurfaced. Camshafts will be sent out to a grinder that he uses often. I didn't bring him my rockers thinking I'd send them myself to a Pelicanparts forum recommended person. But, I think I'll bring them in and at least let him look at them and give an opinion. We will replace the one timing chain gear on the intermediate shaft that had the chunks taken out of a couple of teeth.
The case was good. No issues. The crankshaft was also perfect. No cracks by magnaflux, and it measured to standard specs just fine with no wear issues. The rough patches on the rod journals that I thought were wear in my earlier posts were not wear, but rather they were spots of metal transfer to the journal. It's bearing metal that has stuck to the journal. It will come off with a routine polish of the journals. Lesson learned. I'll be buying a set of standard size crank and rod bearings. Whew.
The big ends of the rods were slightly enlongated and will be resized. Wrist pin bushings will be replaced. Flywheel will be resurfaced. I will have the crankshaft, flywheel, and new pressure plate assembly balanced. Rods will be balanced.
The pitting that I pointed out in the camshaft housing bearing journals is not a concern. His comment was "oil reservoirs," as I had heard from others either here or on Pelican. Everything measured fine, and the camshaft housings will be re-used.
In total, it looks like I'll be under $2000 for the machine shop part. And, I won't be taking taking out a second mortgage for new pistons and cylinders. That makes me happy. Maybe I'll rebuild my 915 with all that extra cash I'm going to have lying around. lol
Brett
Last edited by Brett San Diego; 02-27-2012 at 02:43 PM.
02-27-2012, 05:30 PM
#129
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Hey Brett,
That all sounds really good! The work you're having done sounds pretty similar to my situation. Also, my bill was nominally $2K too, but Brent gave me a nice discount off of that as he took both my old cylinder sets for re-boring cores for race motors. Of course, that discount only partly offsets the cost of the new P's & C's!
That all sounds really good! The work you're having done sounds pretty similar to my situation. Also, my bill was nominally $2K too, but Brent gave me a nice discount off of that as he took both my old cylinder sets for re-boring cores for race motors. Of course, that discount only partly offsets the cost of the new P's & C's!
03-16-2012, 01:19 PM
#131
Yesterday and today were homecoming day for the parts. Just picked up the last of it this morning, the assembled cylinder heads.
I have a bunch of pics, and I'll post the final reckoning with the machine shop. It was just a hair over $2000. I thought I'd be under, but it was close.
Brett
03-18-2012, 12:58 AM
#133
Brett
03-18-2012, 01:08 AM
#134
Here are pics of parts back from the machine shop. I've got 22 pics that I'll split into a few posts.
Pic 1 and 2. One of the cleaned camshaft housings. Cleaned by the machine shop's "dishwasher." It's a hell of a lot better than it was, but as you can see, there is still some stubborn residue to remove using good old-fashioned elbow grease.
Pics 3-5. The cleaned engine case. Again, still some stubborn case sealant and gasket residue to be removed before reassembly begins.
Pic 1 and 2. One of the cleaned camshaft housings. Cleaned by the machine shop's "dishwasher." It's a hell of a lot better than it was, but as you can see, there is still some stubborn residue to remove using good old-fashioned elbow grease.
Pics 3-5. The cleaned engine case. Again, still some stubborn case sealant and gasket residue to be removed before reassembly begins.
03-18-2012, 01:25 AM
#135
Remember this timing chain gear on the intermediate shaft?
Its history.
Reground camshafts courtesy of a nearby outfit called Schneider Racing Cams. Not much to see through the plastic bags, but I didn't want to take them out. It would be an oily mess.
Schneider gives you their own cam assembly lube to use.
Its history.
Reground camshafts courtesy of a nearby outfit called Schneider Racing Cams. Not much to see through the plastic bags, but I didn't want to take them out. It would be an oily mess.
Schneider gives you their own cam assembly lube to use.