racer

While I don't like it, it seems yes, even the US spec carreras are creaping up in price.

imho, its a tarted up 911 S (same motor, same suspension. Yes, rear flares and a ducktail.. so that makes it worth 2x-4x as much? well, not to me)

The '74 2.7s faired a little better due to their lack of emissions equipment and better final drive gearing. 75's have bigger bumper guards (heavier) and the larger rear spoiler.

race911

The ducktail's hen's teeth (as above), and geez if the car has rear flares from the factory it's a Carrera. Not like the fourth digit of the serial number doesn't give it away.

Know how desired a '74 Carrera was back in the day? A '74 coupe I ended up with (friend owns it now, it's the 3.5L track rat/now 3.6L widebody) was modified when it was new at Sonnen with flares. Big deal, right. Well, some German craftsman type came over and, with a die-stamping tool of some sort, flared the rear quarters of three cars to accommodate 8" rear wheels. Funky rounded flares much more like a bubble flare from a 240Z or 510 of the era. I had no idea the story behind these cars until some guy saw mine at the track and started telling me the story.

rusnak

I was offered a '74 Carrera 2.7 Coupe with original ducktail a few years ago at Euro Cars Sunday. I guess I shoulda bought it?

Baurice

Hi there guys
As per Toby and well documented elsewhere, essentially the Euro/RoW spec 1974 2.7 Carrera was a 1973 RS Touring (M472) in a 1974 impact bumper body. Weight (1075kg) and engine were the same as the 73RS Touring (i.e. type 911/83), and the suspension and gearbox nigh on identical. Also only 1036 produced in 1974, 518 in 1975, making it as nearly as rare as the M472. Targas are rarer still.
US version was visually identical but detuned with K-Jetronic CIS Bosch fuel injection and thermal reactors to meet emission standards. Led to poor reputation for reliability in US only.
Collectability is always in the eye of the beholder/purchasers of course. But to have 99% of the experience of a drive in a 1973 2.7RS for a fraction of the price is probably why these cars are valued now. It always puts a smile on my face!
Cheers
Andrew

Makmov

The high priced cars I see relisted over and over and over again.

race911

Thermal reactors showed up for the '75 model year, and then only on CA cars (but the air pump and EGR with the crappy exhaust were 50 state, right?).

Of the ~100 2.7L engines I've had my hands in to do studs, probably half were non-thermal reactor, non-A/C cars. Phoenix heat absolutely destroyed whatever slim reliability there was on the engines. Even when I moved back to the Bay Area to go to law school and was doing engines out of my garage, all of the thermal reactors had long been removed and they were still pulling studs in the mild climate without a front cooler.

whalebird

I'm certain a distinction between the ROW 2.7 Carrera and it's US counterpart needs to be made in this thread and in the market. My input here is based on the 2.7 US (CIS injected) varient. I had an opportunity to buy a 74 Carrera (US) with 14K miles on it (yellow over whatever it's called tan) for 12K several years ago. I passed and the car sold to a collector for much more. I regret my choice daily, but I want (if I look at a 2.7/SC)what Ken calls a track rat. It was too much car for me so to speak, but certainly had a charm about it as any perfect, original, 911 does.
It is remarkable that a large number of the 2.7 "middies" are being/have been turned into track cars. Their expendability lends well to "projects". However, the increasing amount of galvanised sheet metal and the "power" brakes of a 77 may dictate ones objective somewhat. IMHO, all 2.7s need lengthy engine rebuilds if not already done and documented correctly...and that 5 bladed fan is a deal killer for me when a seller represents the motor as "perfect". I may be a bit jaded, but a 2.7 is the perfect car for me (and the worst for a seller) because they will most likely need major motor work if it is a nice original car. Again, I do like a well built 2.7...bone stock.

race911

They mainly got turned into slopenoses 20+ years ago. What's left over now, sure they're the backbone of many of the track cars out there. Or any SC/3.2L, now. (Actually a friend is using an '86 930 carcass for his PRC GTL class racer.)

So I did find the pics of the old '74, pre-and-post surgery.

whalebird

Those flares are different.
These cars just lend themselves to projects nicely. Any relativly solid chassis with a 3.0 SC motor plugged in makeas a DD worthy of a good beating without guilt. As long as you can live with that shaggy 76/77 carpet.
As to the thread here, I just don't see them as any kind of investment medium. Thats me though.

Driver8

There were roughly 500 or so 1974 Carrera coupes built and even fewer Targas.

Driver8

In 1974 all 911 models received the 2.7 engine. The main difference between the Carrera and the other models were the flared fenders and the Duck Tail. The 74 Carreras with MFI have more HP then the ones with CIS injection.

1974 Carrera and its 2.7 CIS engine

Euro951

Targa, 2.7l, big bumpers equals a not very sought after car..... sorry

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

JMHO, but one really needs to drive one to appreciate what they are. That 175BHP is pretty lively in these light cars and they feel MUCH more nimble than an SC or Carrera.

whalebird

My thoughts exactly. A good 2.7 is underrated.

rusnak

It seems as though the special cars were the 2.4 911S, which had 210 bhp at 6,500 rpm. But there is one 2.7 variant that produced the same 210 bhp at 6,300 rpm with the same valve size, port diameter, valve timing (cams) as the S. Torque was increased 18% over the S due to the larger displacement.

The Euro models did not have the thermal reactors. What I don't know is if the U.S. models were de-tuned in terms of compression, valve timing, etc. compared to ROW. It sounds as if they might have been detuned from 1975 on but not in 1974. Therefore, the 1974 US 2.7 is a defacto ROW Carrera. Is this true?

All 1974- models had the higher impact bumpers, and the 2.7 "Carrera" had larger flares and the duck tail.

The K-Jetronic produced better fuel economy and more torque, necessitating a heavier clutch (915). The omega spring was introduced. Gearing was raised.

It seems the 2.7 model year to avoid would be the 1975- US models, which had air injection pumps, and detuned K-Jetronic. Even worse were the California models with egr systems.

Euro 2.7s might have produced 210 hp, but I see a quoted hp of 175 elsewhere. Which 2.7 had this lower hp figure? It seems that 1975- US models all dropped to 165 bhp due to smog emissions, and the Calif 2.7s were even lower. *

* "Porsche 911 Story", 7th ed. by Paul Frere (edit: I'm paraphrasing, not quoting directly)

Can someone proof check this for me, or even give me their impressions from memory? Thanks. I will call my friend later today. It also seems that the highest anyone has given in terms of value to date has been $30K, not the $40K the seller wants.