Peter Zimmermann

Steve: Thank you! Obviously I know about the "Green" engine oil, but... I didn't realize that the formulation for the Kendall synthetic gear oil wasn't carried over. The current oil still smells and feels (I won't swear to the taste!) like the original, it's really different...? I'm told by very reliable people that there has been no change in its effectiveness and characteristics, so I thought that... c'mon, say it ain't so!!!

On a total OT, I was in Portland a couple weeks ago. We took an Amtrak trip on the Starlight - what a fiasco. We got into Portland 6 hours late, so much for having enough time to knock on Steve's door, we barely had time to have breakfast at Byways Cafe on Glasine (spelling?), and a quick visit to Design Within Reach, before heading for Minnesota. Anyway, cheers!!!

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Pete!!

Several years ago, someone told me that Kendall had changed hands and the green oil wasn't the same thing as the original stuff. Soooo, I picked up the phone and called them. Talked to a savvy-sounding individual who assured me it was indeed, the same as the old Kendall GT-1. After some testing, I found that it was NOT the same thing and I moved over to some other products.

About 2 years ago, the same individual pointed me toward American Refining Group and their Brad-Penn line. Being the skeptic that I am, I called them and gave them the genuine "third degree", recounting the obfuscation offered by the people at Kendall about nothing being different. Finally, they passed the "test" and satisfied my concerns. Subsequent testing proved that to be true.

Having used the old Kendall GT-1 in both our RSR & 935 for years without problems and witnessing beautiful engine innards, I have adopted Brad-Penn as my go-to oil for everything.

I cannot think of any car tougher on oil than a 700+HP 935 and if it passes muster in that thing, it will do the job in anything.

Next time you are in River City, holler at me and I'll meet you for breakfast, lunch, etc,...

KLehmann

Thanks for the background info. Steve. You're always a great source of inside info. Taking your advice, I did a bit of comparing between Kendall's product specs and Brad Penn's. Well, here's something interesting...........

I first compared Kendall Super Three Star

http://tds.econocophillips.com/catal...0TDS%20Web.pdf

to Brad Penn Syn 75W90 #7763.

http://www.amref.com/bp_pb/7763_7765...r_Lubes_PB.pdf

The specs are different and what the heck to I know about those numbers? Well not a whole lot other than viscosity = resistance to flow and higher viscosity typically means "thicker" in my simple brain.

So then I decide to compare Kendall SHP Synthetic to Brad Penn Synthetic 7763.................

http://tds.econocophillips.com/catal...0TDS%20Web.pdf

So what you say? Brad Penn 7763 and Kendall SHP have basically the EXACT SAME SPECS!!!!!

So would we say Brad Penn is the better choice or the Super Three Star? I'm sure I can score Brad Penn locally from Charles Navarro at LN Engineering if I decide to take a ride down south.

My email inquiry to Kendall/Conoco-Phillips resulted in a number for me to call in Indiana to find a local Kendall supplier. But it'd be nice to support Charles, especially since I plan to get my Brad Penn engine oil from him.

Thanks,
Kevin

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Kevin:

My very best advice would be to use the Brad-Penn product. That company's integrity is IMHO, excellent.

KLehmann

Thanks Steve. That's what I was thinking.

Charles Navarro

I don't have any of the Brad Penn gear lube, but I can easily get some. I've been stocking the Swepco 201 and Delvac 1 gear lubes, as those are the ones I've used and have been most familiar with.

KLehmann

More info. to digest. Got this from a Conoco-Phillips rep

Kevin,

I appreciate your confusion/frustration with all the different names. Many of the product names have changed due to industry requirements that have required a change because of the chemistry make-up. That's also illustrated by our competitors changing their names on products as you've noted.

The Brad Penn brand is a misconception that they have the old Kendall formulation. While they did buy the old Kendall plant ConocoPhillips still owns the formulations for our magic green products. I know they have told various people/companies that they have our old formulation but that really isn't the case. Besides, as technology advances and the cars and technology with them changes, why would anyone want old technology in these new vehicles? Everyone thought that we lessened the product when all we did at the time was to remove the green dye. Green dye doesn't have any lubrication benefit but it looks different. We removed the dye because we moved all of our Kendall passenger car motor oils to the same quality as our racing products. So the product that works for race cars is the same for passenger cars and trucks. The problem with the green dye is when its put into a transport trailer. It requires addition washing out of the tankers to remove all of the green dye so that amber oils can be transported. As for our motor oils, if anyone wants to compare we're the only major oil company that is offering a Synthetic Blend where the industry is offering a conventional. We also use an above normal amount of synthetic in our blends to bring the highest quality to the market at competitive prices.

The Elite product is for passenger car and light truck synthetic 75W-90 but is no longer available in quarts. The SHP carries the extend warranty for Eaton transmissions and therefore costs more. The other thing that changed is that the demand on synthetic 75W-90 in quarts wasn't enough to keep that package size available. So that's why you'd need to order the 35# pail as the smallest container. Our Super 3 Star 80W-140 was developed for the heavy duty industry. All of the specifications by the OEM's make it even more difficult to keep up on. While most feel that synthetics are synthetics you are also correct in taking caution before making a change as it can have a big negative impact on your car. The additives used in gear oils can have a reaction if the wrong products are used. I'm attaching data sheets for your review. Let me know if I can be of more assistance.

Thanks,

Steve


I started by asking for Super Three Star availability/local supplier info., then after some discussion here at Rennlist it appears SHP would be more appropriate, so I request pricing on SHP and end up with a recommendation of Elite FYI the Elite is about $7 per quart but doesn't come in quarts (actually $136.50 for a 35 lb. container = a little under 5 gallons). It'll take me 3 years to use 5 gallons!

Time to inquire where I can get some Brad Penn. Or maybe Torco, or maybe Redline, or maybe Swepco 203, or maybe Royal Purple, or maybe Amsoil, or maybe Elf, or maybe forget it and stick with Mobil Delvac!!!!

ked

"...why would anyone want old technology in these new vehicles?"
Indeed! precisely why many of us want appropriate technology in our old vehicles...

LUCKe27

I wanted to make a change to see if I could get some of the cold notchiness out of my G50. Since the Kendall is not easy to find (as you've discovered), I just ordered the Delvac from Charles website (should arrive today). Supposedly, people have had good luck with Delvac and the G50's. I'll report back once I have time to make the change.

KLehmann

Actually the Kendall wasn't too hard to find. I sent an email to their general address and a guy contacted me within a day with a somewhat local location that I could get the Kendall from. Steve @ Conoco-Phillips actually went beyond the call of duty to inquire with the supplier (he happened to be at the supplier as we spoke via email) and offered to pass the gear oil request on to the supplier. Since I was undecided as to what formulation to use, I had to question him a little bit to see what I could find. So, if I wasn't such a picky ricky, I could have the Kendall waiting for me in Valparaiso by next week.

I have used both the Mobil 1 75W90 synthetic local parts store fluid, and also the 75W90 Mobil 1 SHC (now Delvac) in my car at the track. Both performed well, despite my car having some crunchy gears (2nd and 3rd) when the temperatures would build toward the end of a 20-30 minute session. No fluid is going to fix worn components, so I don't fault the gear oil for not remedying the gear crunches.

As far as cold operation goes, both Mobil products perform great. I get one stubborn shift to 2nd when cold and everything after that is relatively smooth.