84_Carrera

John D's given the ok to proceed with the "taking names" part of the equation. I'd like to move fairly quickly on this so we don't miss out on grabbing what's left out there.

First, we're talking about GM E.O.S., PN 1052367. This is their engine break-in oil. Credit for use in my own 911 goes to Steve Weiner at Rennsport Systems. I'm also using it in my Taurus SHO now.

Steve told me the oil has the zinc & phosphorus that's been removed from much of the current offerings of oil on the market, and that adding a small amount of this per oil change can add this back to the oil we're running in our engines.

Online / dealer pricing ranges from sub $7 / bottle to almost $10 / bottle (plus tax and / or shipping). I paid $40.15 for local pickup of 4 bottles, with 7% RI tax tonight. Dealer pointed me to another local dealer who's reportedly got 6-7 cases on the shelf. I have an online lead on a qty of it as well. 12 bottles would be just under $100 shipped to me, for example.

I'm not looking to make money on this deal, but rather to offer the results of my searching / coordinate a group purchase for anyone interested in picking up a bottle. 1 bottle would do approx. between 4-8 oil changes, depending on how much you use per change.

I'm not looking to get into the whole Zinc / Phosphorus vs. Boron-based debate, nor the catalytic converter life vs. engine life argument. Just putting it out there I'm willing to help track the stuff down, acquire & ship for my P-car brethren.

STEP 1: Compile the list of intereste parties & how much you need.

(List started here, edited as we go, 1st come, 1st served as I come across this stuff; please email or PM screen name, actual name / ship-to address so I can calc shipping, and qty desired. Only Screen Names & Qty will be listed here)




STEP 2:
Purchase / Payment / Shipping

I'll be able to swing a reasonable amount of the oil (1 case of 12 bottles will be close to $100, keep in mind). So, I may break this up as I go, unless I find a good discount somewhere. I'm not made o' bucks, so I can't afford to eat more than my own personal case' worth long-term.

Steve W - if you stumble across this... let me know your opinion on which models will benefit the most from this; my take is the older the engine, the more likely the oil composition changes will affect cam lobes, etc.

Any questions, please let me know!

WolfeMacleod

I'm good for some. At least 10 bottles..or a full case, whichever.

Hell, I'll take it all.

KC911

I might be interested. I'm going to check locally where I purchase my last bottle to see if they still have it first though...

Keith
'88 CE coupe

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Fred:

All of the air-cooled models would benefit from using this to fortify whatever oil one uses to ensure a ZDDP level between 1200-1400 ppm.

We use this product in every rebuilt engine,.....

KC911

I happened to be near a GM dealer while I was at lunch, and picked some up. Thanks for the "heads up" on it's future (or lack of) Fred, and of course to you too Steve, for keeping us weekend warriors on the right path.

Keith
'88 CE coupe

84_Carrera

I placed an order for another 12 bottles this afternoon. The online source had all of 14 bottles (now -12), so while it meets the original inquiry qty, it's not the depth of qty I hoped for. Will keep searching & let folks know what I find & acquire.

FYI, the parts guy told me a "case" is 6x bottles, so we're on the same page terminology-wise.

As folks head out locally to pick some up as available, if you could do me the HUGE favor of asking them to check their own inventory, and if they have a decent qty (6+ bottles), I'd love to get a phone # & contact info from you so I can potentially get more. A step beyond that would be to do a local-to-them locator service check to see what other dealers around them would have the item & in what qty.

I have this ability for Ford parts, but don't know of a locator service online for GM parts (so if someone knows of one, please lemme know - thanks!)

Greg D.

I bought a case already for my old 912 (356 motor).. I wasn't sure that it was required on the more modern 911 as well... Isn't that stuff murder on the catalytic converter ?

WolfeMacleod

Just scored a total of 34 bottles from two different dealerships.
One charged me $20 each for 29 bottles...one charged $9 each for five bottles.

Ouchie!

I'm good for more, though.

KC911

$9 is what I paid yesterday. As far as the cat damage goes, it hasn't shown any noticable effects on my converter, but mine is sitting on a garage shelf . Even if it wasn't, I'd rather protect my motor ($$$) and let my cat go. BTW, even w/o a cat, my car runs fairly clean, and had no problem passing emmissions (when it still had too).

Keith
'88 CE coupe

84_Carrera

I also have the original cat... safely on the shelf. Ditto on the replacements... I'd rather pay $500 for a cat than what, $8,000-12,000 for a new engine or complete rebuild?


Also, another local dealer has 36 bottles they'll sell, which I'll be acquiring today, and that'll be the end of what I pick up until demand meets what's been acquired, etc. (all of this is going on the Plastic, BTW).



EDIT: After the (36) mentioned above, they have found another (36) bottles. If I buy all (72) bottles, they'll drop the price for us to $6.75 / bottle, maybe lower .

Greg D.

The world's ending, the world is ending !!! ;-)

There are still plenty of oils that fit our cars without the need for additives, are still for sale, and will do just fine for our cars... We went through this a month ago on the 356 registry list.. I'll see if I can dig up the good oils (I think castrol GTX 20/50 was one) before you guys ruin yourselves buying EOS for $20 a bottle !

Not to mention EOS is gone but it's been rebranded and will stick around.... Gotta go look for that info, I should have saved it...

Here's some:

http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

84_Carrera

Greg, I understand what you're saying, and I've read the info you're pointing to.

As far as Castrol GTX 20/50, which I used when I first got the 911... I have seen more condensation film built up on the drain plugs with GTX (and I'm a GTX diehard for the SHO engine, BTW). After switching oils, I have not found the milky buildup on the drain plugs during changes.

I do not like Mobil 1. I have my reasons. I realize I'm in the minority on this one, and I'll leave it at that.

IF SOMETHING WORKS, I'd like to stick with it. If adding a small amount of EOS gets it done, I can certainly live with the peace of mind knowing I have enough to use over the next few years. I'm sure I'm one of the only ones here doing this, but I finance my 911, so I'd like to make a simple investment in doing well by the 23 year old car I have to pay $315 a month for for the next 2.5 years (never mind the fact that I just plain love the car).

If the interest isn't here for the additive, PLEASE just let me know, and I'll not front the money for it. I'm just trying to be a nice guy & do the legwork for those who DO want to go this way. If you don't, that's cool, I respect that.

I personally want to acquire a dozen bottles of the stuff to cover both of my cars for the next few years. I have that covered + a few bottles with what I've already bought, before the calls made this morning.

Again, just trying to reach out & do a good deed.

Greg D.

Fred,

I have no problem with the group buy, it's nice of you to set it up ... I guess I sort of picked the wrong thread to kinda poke (a little fun), it's just that from reading all the car websites these days you'd think the world's going to end and all our engines are going to grenade this afternoon - there are alternatives... By all means, do your EOS thing, it's not a bad idea as long as dealers don't start gouging for it... Especially since it's been rebranded and will be around (but for the life of me I can't remember the damn name)

PS: I've noticed lower oil pressures on castrol GTX myself, no milky substance but instead of rpm +1 bar, I see rpm + 0.75 bar or so... I'll probably investigate other "approved" brands next time I change oil ! I did buy 5 cans of EOS for the 912, for until the dust settles, as getting the "good" oils is not easy at local FLAPS yet..

g-50cab

Royal Purple synthetic motorcycle oil has some of the highest zinc and phosphorous content out there - But I keep a qt of EOS on the shelf too.

84_Carrera

Thanks Greg.

As for the replacement, I'm told Boron-based additives will replace ZDDP based. However, also FWIW, NONE of the parts counter guys I've discussed with (after physically taking possession of the bottles of course) had any idea it was discontinued until they went over to their PCs & looked it up, and all of them said, "No Replacement Listed" to me.

Other additives are out there. Other oils are out there. Today. It seems like the oil formulations are ever-changing, and unless someone's up on it, they're like most - find an oil & stick with it over the decades. Oh, Mobil 1 changed its formula? When the heck did that happen... oh, about a year before I spun that bearing. I see... Oh, now it's changing again. Did they make a mistake in the oil when they changed it?

I agree most additives are snake oil (pun intended). Don't get me started on Z-max, for example. As for the other oils (Brad Penn), I'm still waiting for a contact back from them, oh, about a month ago since I tried finding where I could buy their oil from here in New England.

I'm sure (well, maybe not so much so) that someone at the automakers has been researching / investigating & spec'ing out cam billets / materials (etc) that are protected by available & proposed replacement oil formulations. However the thing is, we're talking up to 50+ year old cams for the air-cooled Porsche engines out there, none of which thought about replacment oils back then. Hell, the EPA didn't even exist (Circa 1970 establishment).

Anyway, onward & upward I guess, and I appreciate your input, as I do anyones.