Buying price for this 1977 911 Carrera 3.0
08-31-2005, 07:09 AM
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Buying price for this 1977 911 Carrera 3.0
What are your recommendations for a buying price for this 1977 911 Carrera 3.0?
(I posted a similar topic on the Pelican site but was hoping to get more advice on the topic.)
Overall – In very nice condition; garage kept, driven infrequently and probably gently. But not maintained other than to change oil/filter and update chain tensioners and body repainted. Will post pictures ASAP.
1. General information
1.1. car has not been driven in about 1.5 years
1.2. ~60k miles
1.3. same owner since imported in 1982
1.4. has original Euro speedometer odometer
1.5. regularly maintained but no records or receipts
1.6. no owners manual
2. Interior
2.1. very good condition
2.2. clock not working
3. Wheels and tires
3.1. very good condition
3.2. 205/55R16 front
3.3. 225/50R16 rear
4. Brakes – sticking, especially on rear
4.1. brake fluid very dark – needs to be flushed
4.2. rear brake lines rubber swollen
4.3. rear brake line metal tubes bent but not kinked
5. Suspension
5.1. all rubber looks good
5.2. rear shocks leaking
6. Engine
6.1. hydraulic chain tensioner upgrade
6.2. valve guides may or may not be original
6.3. fuse box cover missing
6.4. large plastic blower motor hose has cracks in the accordion section
6.5. oil coolant line partly crushed just behind right front wheel due to accidental lifting, probably reduced flow area by about 5%
6.6. spark plugs – not checked
6.7. compression – not done
6.8. leak down – not done
6.9. head studs cracking – not checked
6.10. engine oil leaks – none except oil return line (inboard of left rear wheel) cracked and leaking at metal fitting
7. Exhaust
7.1. muffler sealing ring missing
7.2. rust – between muffler and tail pipe – PPI shop said that this could be re-welded and be okay
7.3. rust - heat exchanger badly rusted – PPI shop said replace
7.4. rust – heater flapper box controls rusted
8. Body
8.1. repainted in original color due to keying – repaint job looks very good but is not perfect: over spray in a couple of areas and some minor orange peeling that you can see at certain angles
8.2. right rear turn signal cracked
8.3. rust – on body in about 9 places, biggest areas are about 0.25 inch x 0.25 inch and are relatively superficial
8.4. bottom front panel forward of gas tank accidently used to lift car bent upwards about 1.5 inches
8.5. bottom front edge of gas tank coating chipped and some rust but probably just needs minor work to stop further rust
8.6. whale tail – swelling and rubbing on engine lid frame in two places
8.7. whale tail – fabric layers separating in two places – cracks are about 3 inches long each
8.8. whale tail – rubber lip separating from fiberglass along bottom edge
8.9. rear center “Porsche” lens stained over about 15% of its area
8.10. windshield and glass is all in good shape
9. Transmission
9.1. new clutch 10 years ago
9.2. no leaks
9.3. cv boots look good
10. Front trunk
10.1. battery lose – no battery strap
10.2. no jack or tools
(I posted a similar topic on the Pelican site but was hoping to get more advice on the topic.)
Overall – In very nice condition; garage kept, driven infrequently and probably gently. But not maintained other than to change oil/filter and update chain tensioners and body repainted. Will post pictures ASAP.
1. General information
1.1. car has not been driven in about 1.5 years
1.2. ~60k miles
1.3. same owner since imported in 1982
1.4. has original Euro speedometer odometer
1.5. regularly maintained but no records or receipts
1.6. no owners manual
2. Interior
2.1. very good condition
2.2. clock not working
3. Wheels and tires
3.1. very good condition
3.2. 205/55R16 front
3.3. 225/50R16 rear
4. Brakes – sticking, especially on rear
4.1. brake fluid very dark – needs to be flushed
4.2. rear brake lines rubber swollen
4.3. rear brake line metal tubes bent but not kinked
5. Suspension
5.1. all rubber looks good
5.2. rear shocks leaking
6. Engine
6.1. hydraulic chain tensioner upgrade
6.2. valve guides may or may not be original
6.3. fuse box cover missing
6.4. large plastic blower motor hose has cracks in the accordion section
6.5. oil coolant line partly crushed just behind right front wheel due to accidental lifting, probably reduced flow area by about 5%
6.6. spark plugs – not checked
6.7. compression – not done
6.8. leak down – not done
6.9. head studs cracking – not checked
6.10. engine oil leaks – none except oil return line (inboard of left rear wheel) cracked and leaking at metal fitting
7. Exhaust
7.1. muffler sealing ring missing
7.2. rust – between muffler and tail pipe – PPI shop said that this could be re-welded and be okay
7.3. rust - heat exchanger badly rusted – PPI shop said replace
7.4. rust – heater flapper box controls rusted
8. Body
8.1. repainted in original color due to keying – repaint job looks very good but is not perfect: over spray in a couple of areas and some minor orange peeling that you can see at certain angles
8.2. right rear turn signal cracked
8.3. rust – on body in about 9 places, biggest areas are about 0.25 inch x 0.25 inch and are relatively superficial
8.4. bottom front panel forward of gas tank accidently used to lift car bent upwards about 1.5 inches
8.5. bottom front edge of gas tank coating chipped and some rust but probably just needs minor work to stop further rust
8.6. whale tail – swelling and rubbing on engine lid frame in two places
8.7. whale tail – fabric layers separating in two places – cracks are about 3 inches long each
8.8. whale tail – rubber lip separating from fiberglass along bottom edge
8.9. rear center “Porsche” lens stained over about 15% of its area
8.10. windshield and glass is all in good shape
9. Transmission
9.1. new clutch 10 years ago
9.2. no leaks
9.3. cv boots look good
10. Front trunk
10.1. battery lose – no battery strap
10.2. no jack or tools
08-31-2005, 07:09 AM
#2
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Porsche Mechanic's notes:
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Here's a quick list I put together of the parts mentioned on the checklist.
(1) Oil pipe $100.00
(2) Heater control boxes $100.00 each
(1) Accordion heater hose $23.00
(1) Fuse/Relay cover $40.00 (used)
(1) Battery hold down clamp $10.00
(1) Front & rear brake hoses $50.00 for four
(2) Rear shocks $120.00 each
(1) Right rear tail light lens, euro $90.00
(1) Heater exchangers up $1,200.00
(1) Exhaust sealing ring $12.00
My overall impression of the car is that it is a very unique 911 that is actually in very nice original condition. Sure it has some issues like any car that has not been driven regularly, but at least it is relatively low miles and one owner for 27 years. Being a euro though can make getting some parts a little more difficult (but not impossible) where this car was never offered or sold in the US.
I would say the main items to address are the heat exchangers as being the biggest cost item - and the brake system needs to be thoroughly flushed and some items replaced to make the car brake system up to speed before it goes anywhere. Probably just sticking caliper pistons, but where the wheels turned so hard I wouldn't rule out some of the calipers requiring rebuild kits, new hoses, and replacement lines where they were crimped. The engine started and ran very healthy, although a road test would have been nice. I didn't see any smoke on start up, the clutch felt good considering the drag of the brakes.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxx
Here's a quick list I put together of the parts mentioned on the checklist.
(1) Oil pipe $100.00
(2) Heater control boxes $100.00 each
(1) Accordion heater hose $23.00
(1) Fuse/Relay cover $40.00 (used)
(1) Battery hold down clamp $10.00
(1) Front & rear brake hoses $50.00 for four
(2) Rear shocks $120.00 each
(1) Right rear tail light lens, euro $90.00
(1) Heater exchangers up $1,200.00
(1) Exhaust sealing ring $12.00
My overall impression of the car is that it is a very unique 911 that is actually in very nice original condition. Sure it has some issues like any car that has not been driven regularly, but at least it is relatively low miles and one owner for 27 years. Being a euro though can make getting some parts a little more difficult (but not impossible) where this car was never offered or sold in the US.
I would say the main items to address are the heat exchangers as being the biggest cost item - and the brake system needs to be thoroughly flushed and some items replaced to make the car brake system up to speed before it goes anywhere. Probably just sticking caliper pistons, but where the wheels turned so hard I wouldn't rule out some of the calipers requiring rebuild kits, new hoses, and replacement lines where they were crimped. The engine started and ran very healthy, although a road test would have been nice. I didn't see any smoke on start up, the clutch felt good considering the drag of the brakes.
08-31-2005, 07:16 AM
#3
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I'd like to post some pictures but I'm not sure how to do it. The FAQ and searches on "uploading pictures" are either not related or seem to be for already having the pictures on a server somewhere. Does anyone have any information on where I can find this information?
08-31-2005, 11:50 AM
#4
First, the 3.0 Carrara is quite similar to the 3.0 SC that was introduced in US market in 1978. Although 3.0 Carraras are not common in the US, they also are not "rare", so the price of the car is probably similar to or maybe a bit higher that a US Spec SC of similar condition.
Just a guess, but I'd peg the price of the car as you described as low teens at best. This assumes the engine passes PPI with flying colors, and the gearbox and clutch are ok. Also, the rust situation would bother me. These cars should be extensively galvanized, so if there is penetrating rust (as opposed to surface rust due to paint scratches) that would indicate a potential problem. Generally, rust is like cockroaches... if you see a couple, there are probably alot more hiding.
Just a guess, but I'd budget about $4-5K to fix everything and bring it up to snuff.
Just a guess, but I'd peg the price of the car as you described as low teens at best. This assumes the engine passes PPI with flying colors, and the gearbox and clutch are ok. Also, the rust situation would bother me. These cars should be extensively galvanized, so if there is penetrating rust (as opposed to surface rust due to paint scratches) that would indicate a potential problem. Generally, rust is like cockroaches... if you see a couple, there are probably alot more hiding.
Just a guess, but I'd budget about $4-5K to fix everything and bring it up to snuff.
08-31-2005, 09:26 PM
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JCP911S,
Thanks for all the input. The owner is asking $18,500 and does not seem to be flexible. It looks like this car is probably not for me.
Thanks for all the input. The owner is asking $18,500 and does not seem to be flexible. It looks like this car is probably not for me.
09-01-2005, 12:19 PM
#6
I'm not an expert on 3.0 Carraras, and the market is so wild right now, you might want to get some other opinions, but I'd say for $18.5K you could get a really pristine SC or a very clean, no excuses 3.2 Carrara if that would suit your needs. 
