Cajun

DISCLAIMER: PURISTS COVER YOUR EARS!!!!

Guys,

Here's the skinny...I have a '76 911s that has a nice sound body and is in good shape (and no history). I blew the motor around X-mas and it has been sitting ever since. I would like to get it back on the road.

Here's the delimma - I am torn between dropping a 3.2 into it and making a nice daily driver out of it -OR- handing it over to some buddies of mine who have a speed shop and letting them drop a small block V8 in it and making a *****-to-the-wall street stormer out of it.

For the record, I would not be doing this if it was a more desireable year car. I picked it up for nearly nothing and was planning on making it a racer eventually and then decided it would be cheaper to buy a car that had already been modded into a racer, so here she sits - ready to go back to street duty...But in what form??? (I also don't plan on selling the car or anything like that. I just want something that will scare the hell out of me)

What are you guys thoughts on the V8 conversion? When I mentioned the possibility to my P-car mechanic he got a little excited thinking it would be a cool possibility especially since I got the car so cheap. I spoke to my friends with the speed shop and they are doing some homework for me to come up with a cost. FWIW, I would only go the V8 route if the engine made some SERIOUS hp - which my buddies assured me would be possible (with big sh*t eating grins on their faces of course).

So, there it is. Let me have it - what do you guys think? What all needs to be done to pull one of these conversions off? I am thinking that the V8 conversion and the upgrade to the 3.2 can be done for similar $. I know that there may be some weight issues and such & I may have to re-do the rear suspension...But what else? I am really starting to give this some thought and if I do it, it will be a 1st class conversion not a Frankenstein.

No flames please, just honest opinions. The idea of making an obscenely fast death trap is appealing to me more and more...

Thanks...

Peter Zimmermann

DYNAMITE! Actually, a guy in SoCal has been doing nutty conversions like this for years. His name is, if I remember correctly, Rod Simpson. Rod lives in Pacific Palisades. I haven't talked with him for at least 15 years, but at that time he had worked out all the adaptor plate issues, radiators, etc. I think he even figured out that an early 915 trans (like yours) should be upgraded with a later model mainshaft. Hope you find him, and good luck...
Pete

Brett San Diego

Fun project. A company called Renegade Hybrids sells kits for your proposed conversion. They might not be into giving away trade secrets, however. I have no idea whether their kits are reasonably priced (and I certainly have no ties with them). Just seen them at P-car shows, on the web, etc.

Brett

Cajun

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. I appreciate the encouragement. I did not know that they had "kits" out there for this sort of thing.

I was wondering if anyone out there had any idea as to the extent of fabrication that is required?

Thanks again...

Crimson Nape Racing

I actually have no idea about your specific questions, but as a closet red neck, I think the idea sounds cool. I have read many things in various places over the years on this same subject, so if you broaden your search, I'm sure you will find lots of info. I have a feeling that Rennlist is not the best place to find info on V-8 conversions.

LukeSportsman

Years ago when I first looked into the idea of adding a 911 to my fleet was with the intention of of a V8 conversion. You'll definitely want to get to Renegades website and eventually to the forum. Here you can hear from guys who have actually done this with varied levels of success. I can't remember the website, but there is a C2 (black) with a dry sumped killer NASCAR quality engine that is a monster around a corner as well as straight line.

You're going to end up with a car with about a 930's weight bias, but a little higher CG. You can offset this with lightweight quality parts. Remember that you can shave almost 20lbs off a SBC crank and installing Al heads and manifold almost a must.

Coolant obviously is a challenge. Kinks in lines and quality fittings on the pumps and radiators. Do NOT skimp on quality coolant components.

This WILL cost MORE than a 3.2, but less than a 500hp turbo boxster engine. Decide where your budget lies in there and go for it. Plan on some 915 upgrades though! Look up Doozer on Pelican's board. He is building the ultimate monster.

fixnprsh

um, I personally think its a bad idea adding more weight to the rear of an already rear engined/weight biased car. small block torque will destroy a 915, you will need a 930 box. A V8 is a little over kill, you will need bigger brakes, suspension, chassis mods. It would be cheaper to just buy a 930 IMO for a car you can get resale out of if need be.

JackOlsen

Porsche engines are not the lightest powerplants out there. My Jaguar's V8 weighs less than my Porsche's flat six (which is still surprising to me, since my Jaguar weighs about a thousand pounds more than my 911, overall).

But you are NOT looking at a comparable cost between a 3.2 swap (easy) and a V8 swap (complicated and expensive).

However, a V8 can put out a LOT more power than a stock 3.2.

Cajun

Thanks again for the replies gentlemen. The "project" is still in the research stages. Thanks for the tip on the renegade pages. Does anyone have the address to that forum?

I know that it might be an "expensive" proposition, but how expensive? I mean I am pretty good with a wrench and my buddies at the speed shop are unbelieveable... Personally, I think the challenge might be half the fun. Keep in mind, used 350 small blocks and 5.0 Ford motors are everywhere. I am anticipating acquiring the engine as being the easy/least expensive part (I can rebuild it anyway I want from there). Based on what I am hearing, it is upgrading and modding the car itself that would be the expensive part.

Thanks again for the input and considerations. I will let you know what my search yields...

Cajun

Check this out...Prices are at the bottom...Similar cost it seems to the 3.2....

www.renegadehybrids.com/911.htm

SGOGT4

Too bad you can't shoe hoorn a 928s 5.0 in there (at least it would satisfy some of the purists). I have to believe you will need substantial chassis work to accomodate that kind of power/torque. Probably even body work to fit tires that would keep the thing planted. I am with the guys that suggested going to a 930. With the money you are going to put into the conversion you should be able to get into a 400hp turbo. Ofcourse I am a little biased.

SGOGT4

Oops... sorry hadn't looked at renegade's link. Apparently prices are pretty low. But what I don't see on any of the part listings is any mention of transmission, brake, tire, or suspension (beyond replacing the rear torsion bar). That think would be a real handfull!

LukeSportsman

I've seen guys put 7.5k upwards in their transmissions for killer engines. Renegade sales kits but so do well respected Porsche tranny rebuilders. Putting Porsche trannys behind other engines is nothing rare or new and can work well....look at the Ultima.

SBF's are great, and light and make tons of power. It has been done, but rarely and haven't seen one in person. You'd have to go to an Explorer dizzy emlinator setup, dry style timing belt kit and probably a special dampner. Kennedy can set you up with the adaptors and clutches for this. Look into the differing opinions on flow versus pressure etc. with radiator designs. General opinion seems to be that Renegades newer designs are superior to others.

http://www.pors-chev.com/

This is the group you can join to discuss the conversions. I would recommend a few dozen hours on here before making your final decision.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pors-chev/

This group is less active these days, but may find some more info.

I don't believe that the brakes are necessary if its a street car and being driven no faster than before. Quicker for sure, but this doesn't mean you need more thermal capacity for one panic stop. Obviously they must work as good as were intended. I think you'd want to upgrade to 30-31 rear torsion bars and fronts to balance. You'd need tuned shocks for this. I'd caution on going to a jumbo rear bar initially because it will be very unforgiving and have more snap oversteer.

You can pick up a 3.2 for $6500 and have her in there for a few bucks more. Sure the 350 could be had in good rebuild for $3500, but your just getting started. If you want it to be of "equal" quality you'll have a conservative $10k into it before your driving without issues. I still think its cheaper to build up than a 930, but as mentioned above, if you have to sell her she will get much more expensive on the lower return.

For a killer engine swap consider a TA Buick Al block that'll go out to like 4.5 liters and is good for over 1200hp. It would reduce overhang, CG, and weight being about 100lbs less than the boxster. Then theres the harmonic issue and torque application that'll send fewer and more harsh pulses to the tranny gears....better plan on a 930 tranny to due this. This last part was just a dream of mine and then I realized I could just get two Porsches for the money!

Edward

There used to be a guy on the 993 board that shoehorned a V8 into his ...maybe try a search? (George, maybe??)
IIRC, he said that the chevy 8 he used weighed *less* (dry) than our flat 6. It's been done, but comlicated. The HP IS the allure, though. Good luck and keep us posted.

Edward

scottb

www.porchev.com