Has anyone regretted jumping into the 911 "world"?
04-21-2005, 05:58 PM
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Has anyone regretted jumping into the 911 "world"?
Hello!
Like seemingly a bunch of folks around here, I've been lurking for a few weeks to try to glean information about a potential 911 (SC or Carerra) purchase. I'd like to say that I've been completely impressed with the helpfulness and tone of these forums. Thanks to all of you for contributing your time and words, I'm sure there are far more that appreciate it than you realize.
Delving a bit into my auto history, I've owned a string of 4 BMW's including a E36 M3 and currently a E39 540i. I've liked them all (loved the M3), but the 540 has me wanting something more direct and fun (especially since it's an auto). It does everything almost too well, if that makes sense at all
I don't drive any of my cars a whole lot, maybe 5 - 6K miles a year, and I keep the "nice" ones in the garage during bad weather. (Not that we get a whole lot here in AZ ) The marginal A/C of the 911's is a concern, but not critical since I can just take my other car if it's really hot.
My budget is around the 20K mark, with less being better to leave some capital for unexpected repairs and such. I've never found any of the BMW's particularly expensive to maintain / fix, mostly because I do almost all of the routine maintenance and repairs myself. I initially started looking for another M3, but being a car guy, I saw this as an opportunity to look at some alternatives, and naturally the 911 (and 951, but that's a different story) came into play. I've genuinely enjoyed reading about them and their idiosyncrasies. My wife seems to think that I like looking for / researching cars as much as driving them - she may be right.
Best I can tell, I SEEM like a 911 kind of guy. I really like driving and often sneek away with my 4 yr old to hit some twisty mountain roads. I'm not particularly bothered by small problems/issues, in fact I enjoy the satisfaction of fixing things myself. What I am bothered by is the potential for large/expensive repairs. A 10K engine rebuild on a 18K car would definitely dull some of the 911 luster for me So, I guess I'm looking to solicit some feedback from some new(ish) 911 owners. Once the initial excitement has worn off, would you do it again? Has anyone that has gotten a proper PPI still gotten burned by huge repair bills? I don't mind dropping some money into a car that I love, but I sure don't want to get divorced over one either I realize that the BMW's can also have the same type of huge repairs, but I've been around them so long, that there's a certain comfort factor with them that I don't have with the 911.
Thanks in advance for any comments.
Scott
Like seemingly a bunch of folks around here, I've been lurking for a few weeks to try to glean information about a potential 911 (SC or Carerra) purchase. I'd like to say that I've been completely impressed with the helpfulness and tone of these forums. Thanks to all of you for contributing your time and words, I'm sure there are far more that appreciate it than you realize.
Delving a bit into my auto history, I've owned a string of 4 BMW's including a E36 M3 and currently a E39 540i. I've liked them all (loved the M3), but the 540 has me wanting something more direct and fun (especially since it's an auto). It does everything almost too well, if that makes sense at all
I don't drive any of my cars a whole lot, maybe 5 - 6K miles a year, and I keep the "nice" ones in the garage during bad weather. (Not that we get a whole lot here in AZ ) The marginal A/C of the 911's is a concern, but not critical since I can just take my other car if it's really hot.My budget is around the 20K mark, with less being better to leave some capital for unexpected repairs and such. I've never found any of the BMW's particularly expensive to maintain / fix, mostly because I do almost all of the routine maintenance and repairs myself. I initially started looking for another M3, but being a car guy, I saw this as an opportunity to look at some alternatives, and naturally the 911 (and 951, but that's a different story) came into play. I've genuinely enjoyed reading about them and their idiosyncrasies. My wife seems to think that I like looking for / researching cars as much as driving them - she may be right.
Best I can tell, I SEEM like a 911 kind of guy. I really like driving and often sneek away with my 4 yr old to hit some twisty mountain roads. I'm not particularly bothered by small problems/issues, in fact I enjoy the satisfaction of fixing things myself. What I am bothered by is the potential for large/expensive repairs. A 10K engine rebuild on a 18K car would definitely dull some of the 911 luster for me
So, I guess I'm looking to solicit some feedback from some new(ish) 911 owners. Once the initial excitement has worn off, would you do it again? Has anyone that has gotten a proper PPI still gotten burned by huge repair bills? I don't mind dropping some money into a car that I love, but I sure don't want to get divorced over one either I realize that the BMW's can also have the same type of huge repairs, but I've been around them so long, that there's a certain comfort factor with them that I don't have with the 911.Thanks in advance for any comments.
Scott
04-21-2005, 08:26 PM
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Scott,
I am new 911 owner. I have had my 1982 sc Targa for around 2 months now. I bought it off E-bay and it had not been inspected. A dangerous way to live, I know....
Thus far, no major problems. My mechanic (John Walker, Seattle) had looked the car over and found that its solid.
In the 'needs' to be done catagory:
Alternator $380
Valve adjustment and oil change $300? (can't recall)
Thats it. I have had other work done, but those are upgrades (and more on the way...wow is that part fun).
No one has a crystal ball, but if you get a compotent mechanic to do the PPI, you should get a pretty acurate view of the cars history and whats coming down the road. Obviously it is important to find a trustworthy mechanic. This board and the Pelicanparts forums can be very helpful in that regard.
Unlike many, I was not a 'porsche guy' from birth. I wanted a fun sports car to drive, and did not want to buy a money pit. After tons of research, I settled on a 3.0 liter 911. I am thrilled with it, and my enjoyment has grown with time as I get more in tune with the car. On a sunday afternoon, I put my 18month old in her car seat (yes, a 911 holds a car seat just fine!) and off we go. Its a blast.
For 20k you can definitely move up to a 3.2 liter car (84-89) that will offer more robust performance, and good reliablilty like the 3.0s. For that much $$$, you should be able to get a very solid car. If speed is not your main goal, an excellent 3.0 liter(1978-83) can be had for less than 15k.
I paid $11350 for my 82, and as you can see above, I have not had any major meltdowns, and my mechanic does not see any on the horizon.
Do it. The cars are a blast.
I am new 911 owner. I have had my 1982 sc Targa for around 2 months now. I bought it off E-bay and it had not been inspected. A dangerous way to live, I know....
Thus far, no major problems. My mechanic (John Walker, Seattle) had looked the car over and found that its solid.
In the 'needs' to be done catagory:
Alternator $380
Valve adjustment and oil change $300? (can't recall)
Thats it. I have had other work done, but those are upgrades (and more on the way...wow is that part fun).
No one has a crystal ball, but if you get a compotent mechanic to do the PPI, you should get a pretty acurate view of the cars history and whats coming down the road. Obviously it is important to find a trustworthy mechanic. This board and the Pelicanparts forums can be very helpful in that regard.
Unlike many, I was not a 'porsche guy' from birth. I wanted a fun sports car to drive, and did not want to buy a money pit. After tons of research, I settled on a 3.0 liter 911. I am thrilled with it, and my enjoyment has grown with time as I get more in tune with the car. On a sunday afternoon, I put my 18month old in her car seat (yes, a 911 holds a car seat just fine!) and off we go. Its a blast.
For 20k you can definitely move up to a 3.2 liter car (84-89) that will offer more robust performance, and good reliablilty like the 3.0s. For that much $$$, you should be able to get a very solid car. If speed is not your main goal, an excellent 3.0 liter(1978-83) can be had for less than 15k.
I paid $11350 for my 82, and as you can see above, I have not had any major meltdowns, and my mechanic does not see any on the horizon.
Do it. The cars are a blast.
04-21-2005, 08:32 PM
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Had my '76 911 for 15 years and have no regrets unless you count wishing I could have bought an SC--but that was a budget thing.
Other than that, what M491 said. All excellent advice.
If you are so inclined, get involved with some Porsche people and events. They are an excellent group of people. and, the track events will increase yor enjoyment of the car enormously.
Other than that, what M491 said. All excellent advice.
If you are so inclined, get involved with some Porsche people and events. They are an excellent group of people. and, the track events will increase yor enjoyment of the car enormously.
04-21-2005, 08:43 PM
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Scott, it does sound like you're the right kind of person for a 911. With your budget you can get yourself a very nice one. If you're worried about expensive rebuilds, look for one that has had the top end done.
I really enjoy the back to the basics feel of my SC. I got connected to the owner by my mechanic who had done all of the recent maintenance on the car.
Take your time and you'll find that special Porsche for you. You'll never wipe the smile off your face.
I really enjoy the back to the basics feel of my SC. I got connected to the owner by my mechanic who had done all of the recent maintenance on the car.
Take your time and you'll find that special Porsche for you. You'll never wipe the smile off your face.
04-21-2005, 08:46 PM
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Drifting
Hi Scott...according to your price range, I'd get the best 911 Carrera (3.2) you could get between 1987 and 1989...these cars are almost flawless and the 3.2 engine makes a terrific match with the G50 tranny...
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04-21-2005, 11:36 PM
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Thanks for the feedback - it's very helpful!
One more question - there seems to be 2 distinct groups of cars: 20K ish cars that are garage queens with < 50K miles, and 15K ish cars with ~100K miles that are well maintained drivers. Which one is likely the better long term purchase, assuming a clean PPI for each?
Again, thanks for the replies. Reading these forums from the "outside" can sometimes leave one with contridictory feelings. I've read almost equal numbers of posts that state the 3.0/3.2 engines are "bulletproof" yet pull head studs, valve guides, etc. It can be hard to get a feel for what a typical ownership experience is like.
Thx again.
Scott
One more question - there seems to be 2 distinct groups of cars: 20K ish cars that are garage queens with < 50K miles, and 15K ish cars with ~100K miles that are well maintained drivers. Which one is likely the better long term purchase, assuming a clean PPI for each?
Again, thanks for the replies. Reading these forums from the "outside" can sometimes leave one with contridictory feelings. I've read almost equal numbers of posts that state the 3.0/3.2 engines are "bulletproof" yet pull head studs, valve guides, etc. It can be hard to get a feel for what a typical ownership experience is like.
Thx again.
Scott
04-21-2005, 11:45 PM
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3.0 gets head studs
3.2 gets the valve jobs
I personaly would prefer a well maintained car with 100K on it as garage queens have a tendency to leak a lot due to the oil sitting and eating the seals, plus short trips where the oil doesn't get to operating temp is hard on rings and other parts. Save the $5K for some goodies, maintainance, and other things that might need work as the PPI would reveal.
3.2 gets the valve jobs
I personaly would prefer a well maintained car with 100K on it as garage queens have a tendency to leak a lot due to the oil sitting and eating the seals, plus short trips where the oil doesn't get to operating temp is hard on rings and other parts. Save the $5K for some goodies, maintainance, and other things that might need work as the PPI would reveal.
04-22-2005, 12:50 AM
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Scott,
About the 911, I have had my 993 (1997) since last August. Driven daily, I have already managed about 11,000 miles since then. (Yes correct, not a typo). My 2001 325 still sits in the driveway with the "for sale" sign in it. No regrets at all about getting into the 911 world. I had been waiting a long time, and finally did it. Whether it is to work or to play, rain or shine, I drive it. Not only is it a great car, but as you see from responses and reading on this forum, a great community to be around.
Good luck.
About the 911, I have had my 993 (1997) since last August. Driven daily, I have already managed about 11,000 miles since then. (Yes correct, not a typo). My 2001 325 still sits in the driveway with the "for sale" sign in it. No regrets at all about getting into the 911 world. I had been waiting a long time, and finally did it. Whether it is to work or to play, rain or shine, I drive it. Not only is it a great car, but as you see from responses and reading on this forum, a great community to be around.
Good luck.
04-22-2005, 12:57 AM
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Hi Scott,
You already are a step ahead of the game since you're already accustomed to working on your cars, and it seems like you;ve got some very realistic expectations. $20K is a healthy budget, and you're right about banking a few $K away for repairs. But if the PPI turns out clean (from a knowledgable shop, of course), 911s don't often surprise you with big repair bills. Check for the known bugaboos (read archives here and on Pelican), and plan accordingly. And I, too, woulda also advise against a garage queen. High-ish miles are fine so long as the car drives well and passes PPI. Records to me are also imperatvie as it speaks not just of the care for the car but of the attention/care the owner pays to it. Good luck, and enjoy the hunt!
Edward
You already are a step ahead of the game since you're already accustomed to working on your cars, and it seems like you;ve got some very realistic expectations. $20K is a healthy budget, and you're right about banking a few $K away for repairs. But if the PPI turns out clean (from a knowledgable shop, of course), 911s don't often surprise you with big repair bills. Check for the known bugaboos (read archives here and on Pelican), and plan accordingly. And I, too, woulda also advise against a garage queen. High-ish miles are fine so long as the car drives well and passes PPI. Records to me are also imperatvie as it speaks not just of the care for the car but of the attention/care the owner pays to it. Good luck, and enjoy the hunt!
Edward
04-22-2005, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by skopiec
I've read almost equal numbers of posts that state the 3.0/3.2 engines are "bulletproof" yet pull head studs, valve guides, etc. It can be hard to get a feel for what a typical ownership experience is like.
The valve guides on some 3.2s wear out, this is true, but a PPI should give you some idea if that is occuring.
I suppose what people mean by 'bulletproof' is that you are not likely to get any nasty suprises if you do your homework. 3.0/3.2 don't tend to have catastrophic failures. They do have identifiable problems that you need to be aware of and monitor. This is of course compared to the Boxters, that have total engine failure (I am talking metal chunks flying around) at 40,000 miles....yikes.....
Look, when I went looking to buy a car, I was specifically trying to avoid a money pit. Once I had ruled out anything made by the Brits and the Italians, it was a pretty easy choice...
04-22-2005, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by skopiec
Hello!
...SNIP... Once the initial excitement has worn off
...SNIP... Once the initial excitement has worn off
Originally Posted by skopiec
would you do it again?
Bottom line:
1- If you can't afford a PPI, don't bother purchasing a used 911 (or ANY Porsche for that matter!).
2- Decide EXACTLY what you want, right down to the color of everything (interior, paint, etc.) and the factory options you MUST have.
3- Decide what car would be a really good second place to the previous choice.
4- Look for BOTH!
5- Drive and personally inspect as many that are as close to these 2 choices as possible.
6- Pick the best car for your budget and take it for a PPI (AFTER brutally scrutinizing EVERY aspect of the car!).
7- Buy the car (assuming it passes PPI with flying colors).
8- Try, just try to wipe that f^%$*#g grin off your face!
BTW, my wife says I am still smiling in my sleep.
Good luck with your search, and remember to purchase the best car you can afford, sometimes sacrificing things like options and color to gain in quality.
+++
04-22-2005, 02:19 AM
#14
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I've had a few hobbies, and I'm also fortunate to have a job that most people would consider nothing but fun. That said, I'm constantly amazed at how much I enjoy my 911. I take it out just about every single day. I track it once a month. I've devoted countless hours to little projects with it. (Currently trying to come up with cheap ride height sensors to run into my data logger -- any suggestions?) It never gets boring, and the people I've met here and on the Pelican Parts Web Site are probably the nicest people I've ever met in any field.
In fact, I've never stumbled on another model of car that generates anywhere near the same amount of enthusiasm. It's amazing.
In fact, I've never stumbled on another model of car that generates anywhere near the same amount of enthusiasm. It's amazing.
04-22-2005, 02:34 AM
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Jack,
Ride height sensors eh?
Do you want to measure and record the variation in suspension compression (and calculate overall ride height using known values) during track events as 'real-time' values, or would recording only the minimum & maximum compression values (lowest & highest ride heights) be sufficient?
I have a few ideas, but need to know more about what you are trying to achieve.
+++
Ride height sensors eh?
Do you want to measure and record the variation in suspension compression (and calculate overall ride height using known values) during track events as 'real-time' values, or would recording only the minimum & maximum compression values (lowest & highest ride heights) be sufficient?
I have a few ideas, but need to know more about what you are trying to achieve.
+++