How does driving a 911 compare to other "fun" cars...
03-19-2002, 07:41 PM
#32
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I have enjoyed this exercise a great deal, being an early ricer, 240z's and still have my kick-*** datsun 2000 solex roadster. I found porsches in the mid eighties and will never turn back. I have been flat out in many japanese cars, but the bottom line was I have never felt safe. In my porsches I have been in pretty bad accidents, not my fault, and all I know is that the cars are substantial.
Rice guys are the hotrodders of the new era, and most of us on this list are a little older and more mature than the kids we see out there. I still dig them although I hate their fashions and so called music as they are doing something with what they have, which beats farting around all day looking stupid.
The guys around town enjoy seeing me and the kids in the neighbor look up to me and my groovy old cars. The two different mindsets can get along for love of a common goal, cars. We just happen to be cool enough and fluid enough to have the better ride.
john brasfield
Rice guys are the hotrodders of the new era, and most of us on this list are a little older and more mature than the kids we see out there. I still dig them although I hate their fashions and so called music as they are doing something with what they have, which beats farting around all day looking stupid.
The guys around town enjoy seeing me and the kids in the neighbor look up to me and my groovy old cars. The two different mindsets can get along for love of a common goal, cars. We just happen to be cool enough and fluid enough to have the better ride.
john brasfield
03-19-2002, 08:44 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Wow;
don't know where to start. I presently own 3 911's including an 88 turbo, 73 rsr replica (modified for street/track) and a 90 C2 (modified for street/track), in addition i own 2 67 'cuda's i drag race, a 66 factory FIA prepared austin mini cooper S and a few other fun toys. 6 of my employees own "Rice" stuff in various forms of preperation. We regularly make Friday night trips down to the local Dragway, where for $10.00 we line up and fire off. I have never lost one race to these guys in either the 90 or the 88, despite their true efforts to make a street driveable, but fast product. (to the guy above who says you can't lay rubber in a 911, you should stop by) We also will go to several autocrosses and let it run, and again, i have not lost. once. this is not for their lack of trying, for i have offered a standing $500 reward if any employee beats me fair and square. They have new motors, turbos, bla bla. Every time they get close, they break. something else i see too much in these rice cars. as they get some level of power, it can't seem to last even a quarter mile, not to mention the huge differences in times at autox. This is our real world test. Reasonable guys and girls, picking their own modifications and lettling the clock rule.
I give these kids tons of encougagement. At least they are working on cars themselves, as opposed to breaking and entering, or selling drugs for fun. Everyone of them want to own a 911. period. they can't wait for me to give the keys over just to go get gas for me. They will come up with any excuse to try and drive them. They all look at their cars as stepping stones to get into 911's (we think all water cooled cars are all Rice cars)
I only wish these other kids realized that the amount of money they have in their cars probably exceeds a reasonable budget to get an early 911 and modify it.
After given a chance, i think most if not all of these kids would burn their rice cars, if someone gave them the oppurtunity to try a 911. let them and they may be in your club soon
concering the start of this thread, i love old big block cars (in fact i love all cars - except water cooled)I think everyone should own a 60's big block car, just like i think you all should own one of every era of 911 made. They all have something to offer. My cuda's are a blast, people honk, wave, appreciate and want to race them anytime i'm in one on the street. it's fun, just like the 11's just go drive and own them all. Yea, they rattle, shake and break, but for it's intended purpose, you gotta have one.........It's like having too many girl freinds......you can't (well maybe my wife differs on that thought)
So i own faster cars than my 911's (the Cudas) and cars that handle significantly better (the mini kills it), but like you all, i feel the 911's provide the combination of sufficient speed (which is never enough) handling, and reliability to win in the end.....buts that's why we are on this list, isn't it.
Take comfort that that this Kid talking smack will someday have the chance to drive the best car in the world (the 911 stupid) and will inspire to own one, and when he does some kid in a Segway will try to pull him at a light, and I can't wait to hear him bitch.....
don't know where to start. I presently own 3 911's including an 88 turbo, 73 rsr replica (modified for street/track) and a 90 C2 (modified for street/track), in addition i own 2 67 'cuda's i drag race, a 66 factory FIA prepared austin mini cooper S and a few other fun toys. 6 of my employees own "Rice" stuff in various forms of preperation. We regularly make Friday night trips down to the local Dragway, where for $10.00 we line up and fire off. I have never lost one race to these guys in either the 90 or the 88, despite their true efforts to make a street driveable, but fast product. (to the guy above who says you can't lay rubber in a 911, you should stop by) We also will go to several autocrosses and let it run, and again, i have not lost. once. this is not for their lack of trying, for i have offered a standing $500 reward if any employee beats me fair and square. They have new motors, turbos, bla bla. Every time they get close, they break. something else i see too much in these rice cars. as they get some level of power, it can't seem to last even a quarter mile, not to mention the huge differences in times at autox. This is our real world test. Reasonable guys and girls, picking their own modifications and lettling the clock rule.
I give these kids tons of encougagement. At least they are working on cars themselves, as opposed to breaking and entering, or selling drugs for fun. Everyone of them want to own a 911. period. they can't wait for me to give the keys over just to go get gas for me. They will come up with any excuse to try and drive them. They all look at their cars as stepping stones to get into 911's (we think all water cooled cars are all Rice cars)
I only wish these other kids realized that the amount of money they have in their cars probably exceeds a reasonable budget to get an early 911 and modify it.
After given a chance, i think most if not all of these kids would burn their rice cars, if someone gave them the oppurtunity to try a 911. let them and they may be in your club soon
concering the start of this thread, i love old big block cars (in fact i love all cars - except water cooled)I think everyone should own a 60's big block car, just like i think you all should own one of every era of 911 made. They all have something to offer. My cuda's are a blast, people honk, wave, appreciate and want to race them anytime i'm in one on the street. it's fun, just like the 11's just go drive and own them all. Yea, they rattle, shake and break, but for it's intended purpose, you gotta have one.........It's like having too many girl freinds......you can't (well maybe my wife differs on that thought)
So i own faster cars than my 911's (the Cudas) and cars that handle significantly better (the mini kills it), but like you all, i feel the 911's provide the combination of sufficient speed (which is never enough) handling, and reliability to win in the end.....buts that's why we are on this list, isn't it.
Take comfort that that this Kid talking smack will someday have the chance to drive the best car in the world (the 911 stupid) and will inspire to own one, and when he does some kid in a Segway will try to pull him at a light, and I can't wait to hear him bitch.....
03-19-2002, 09:43 PM
#35
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>>>>
They all look at their cars as stepping stones to get into 911's (we think all water cooled cars are all Rice cars)
<<<<<
As in my 951?
Wow.
Been lurking in the forum, thinking about a C2, was enjoying lurking, enjoying this thread, then boom, discovered I'm driving rice.
Bummer. Odd surprise, a 44 y.o. president of an international software publishing company, and a ricer. Didn't think that fit...
Out of curiousity, what is a ricer? I thought I knew, but now I guess I'm confused...
Cheers,
Steve Cooper
They all look at their cars as stepping stones to get into 911's (we think all water cooled cars are all Rice cars)
<<<<<
As in my 951?
Wow.
Been lurking in the forum, thinking about a C2, was enjoying lurking, enjoying this thread, then boom, discovered I'm driving rice.
Bummer. Odd surprise, a 44 y.o. president of an international software publishing company, and a ricer. Didn't think that fit...
Out of curiousity, what is a ricer? I thought I knew, but now I guess I'm confused...
Cheers,
Steve Cooper
03-20-2002, 12:15 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
Steve;
Just kidding about water cooled cars. Just trying to evoke a response. they are all good. I'd be happy to talk about my C2. E mail me off list
andy
Just kidding about water cooled cars. Just trying to evoke a response. they are all good. I'd be happy to talk about my C2. E mail me off list
andy
03-20-2002, 12:32 AM
#37
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Andy,
Thanks for the clarification.
I'm really a lot less ricey now. ;-)
I got a kick out of you racing your employees. It works the other way around at my company. My employees are the ballsy ones, trying to get me on the track more often. (On a motorcycle, it's the other way around, I'm the terror)
I wish I had more time to track my 951, the group that one of my guys runs with host a great series of time trial events.
Here's a link to an image of my IT guy's crashed s2000. He's a great driver, an instructor for some DE events at Buttonwillow, Thunderhill and Laguna Seca. Also a very skilled auto-xer at the Marina airport, locally here. He lent this car to a friend. The friend got a little exuberant.
<a href="http://www.s2000arizona.com/albums/laguna-seca/act.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.s2000arizona.com/albums/laguna-seca/act.jpg</a>
BTW, I think I know who nexusone is, and he is a really skilled driver. I know the car locally here in Santa Cruz. I've had him in his supercharged acura on my tail at Thunderhill. If the outlet pipe from my turbo hadn't blown off with my tail pipe blowing flames, he never would have passed me. Wimpy German hose clamps ;-)
Cheers,
Thanks for the clarification.
I'm really a lot less ricey now. ;-)
I got a kick out of you racing your employees. It works the other way around at my company. My employees are the ballsy ones, trying to get me on the track more often. (On a motorcycle, it's the other way around, I'm the terror)
I wish I had more time to track my 951, the group that one of my guys runs with host a great series of time trial events.
Here's a link to an image of my IT guy's crashed s2000. He's a great driver, an instructor for some DE events at Buttonwillow, Thunderhill and Laguna Seca. Also a very skilled auto-xer at the Marina airport, locally here. He lent this car to a friend. The friend got a little exuberant.
<a href="http://www.s2000arizona.com/albums/laguna-seca/act.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.s2000arizona.com/albums/laguna-seca/act.jpg</a>
BTW, I think I know who nexusone is, and he is a really skilled driver. I know the car locally here in Santa Cruz. I've had him in his supercharged acura on my tail at Thunderhill. If the outlet pipe from my turbo hadn't blown off with my tail pipe blowing flames, he never would have passed me. Wimpy German hose clamps ;-)
Cheers,
03-20-2002, 12:41 AM
#38
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Oh yeah, the thread topic....
I had a 71 deTomaso Pantera for a number of years, konis all around, goodyear racing slicks on the street, all race motor- about 400+ hp, that was a fun ride. I spun it frequently, but I also spun my boss' 911SC at the time too.
Cheers,
I had a 71 deTomaso Pantera for a number of years, konis all around, goodyear racing slicks on the street, all race motor- about 400+ hp, that was a fun ride. I spun it frequently, but I also spun my boss' 911SC at the time too.
Cheers,
03-20-2002, 06:43 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Steve:
the whole motorcycle thing is the same as the Rice rocket thing. Most run Rice stuff, and my wife and i just happen to run Italian stuff. Same issue. the Jap bike riders always want to go at it, and after you whomp them (which always happens), they go by again at a stupid speed. Don't get it.
But anyway, you should go to a DE event in your local area. The Reality is it's just a controlled environment where you can hone your skills with everyone going the same way and not having to worry about blue lights. Not to mention (especially in our PCA region) you can get some amazing instruction and support to control your car better. In the end, i drive on the street with more respect for the rules, cause i know i can go to the track and lean on it at a much harder level
Our region allows us to run any car we want (although there is a huge quiet push to only allow the P cars) and i always go right to the P's. Why, because with all that is available to me. They are the best cars i could ever hope to run. The combination of speed, handling, braking and overall control allows me to concentrate on the biggest modifiable part - the driver.
Concering the C2 specifically, i find them to be the best car, and it responds to overall improvements the best. Having a coil over suspension from the start saves so much on having to convert later (all cars end up with coil overs if they want to go fast). The 3.6 is a gerat HP motor and is modifyable(where the 993's don't provide much additional power, unless you drop huge money), and even the stock brakes, with just good fluid and PF pads make it stop well. This is just my .02$ worth.
I find the 964's are the last Porsche cars that drive like a porsche of past. 993's and 6's drive like a ford sedan. Yes they are fast, but if you are in it for the drive, find a car that feels like you are driving at a race track. The extreme is the Mini and your Pantera. True driver cars, to the point of being difficult. The 964 car bring you to the store for food, or feel like a real car at the track
go for the 964. i'll never go back to water for fun!!!
andy
the whole motorcycle thing is the same as the Rice rocket thing. Most run Rice stuff, and my wife and i just happen to run Italian stuff. Same issue. the Jap bike riders always want to go at it, and after you whomp them (which always happens), they go by again at a stupid speed. Don't get it.
But anyway, you should go to a DE event in your local area. The Reality is it's just a controlled environment where you can hone your skills with everyone going the same way and not having to worry about blue lights. Not to mention (especially in our PCA region) you can get some amazing instruction and support to control your car better. In the end, i drive on the street with more respect for the rules, cause i know i can go to the track and lean on it at a much harder level
Our region allows us to run any car we want (although there is a huge quiet push to only allow the P cars) and i always go right to the P's. Why, because with all that is available to me. They are the best cars i could ever hope to run. The combination of speed, handling, braking and overall control allows me to concentrate on the biggest modifiable part - the driver.
Concering the C2 specifically, i find them to be the best car, and it responds to overall improvements the best. Having a coil over suspension from the start saves so much on having to convert later (all cars end up with coil overs if they want to go fast). The 3.6 is a gerat HP motor and is modifyable(where the 993's don't provide much additional power, unless you drop huge money), and even the stock brakes, with just good fluid and PF pads make it stop well. This is just my .02$ worth.
I find the 964's are the last Porsche cars that drive like a porsche of past. 993's and 6's drive like a ford sedan. Yes they are fast, but if you are in it for the drive, find a car that feels like you are driving at a race track. The extreme is the Mini and your Pantera. True driver cars, to the point of being difficult. The 964 car bring you to the store for food, or feel like a real car at the track
go for the 964. i'll never go back to water for fun!!!
andy
03-20-2002, 10:38 PM
#41
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Andy,
I'd like to find a C2 that could be a good supercharging candidate. Agree with the coil springs, and am already familiar with the DME. Need to build some cash reserves back up. Been a tough fall and early winter.
A few images you might enjoy-
My 78 is running front and rear lockers, 33x12.5 "cooper" tires, Old Man Emu shocks/springs, and the original straight 6. That's Zion in the background, lived there for years... a great rock crawling world out there.
My son by the side of the car at Thunderhill. His first name is Cooper. That's nexusone's acura, in black, a few cars behind mine.
Cheers,
I'd like to find a C2 that could be a good supercharging candidate. Agree with the coil springs, and am already familiar with the DME. Need to build some cash reserves back up. Been a tough fall and early winter.
A few images you might enjoy-
My 78 is running front and rear lockers, 33x12.5 "cooper" tires, Old Man Emu shocks/springs, and the original straight 6. That's Zion in the background, lived there for years... a great rock crawling world out there.
My son by the side of the car at Thunderhill. His first name is Cooper. That's nexusone's acura, in black, a few cars behind mine.
Cheers,
03-20-2002, 11:31 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
Steve:
don't supercharge. Everyone i have talked to, and or have worked on or owned one have been disappointed with supercharging. (wow what a funny sentence). Anyway. go get a 90-94 turbo. don't own one, but have driven many. it is the perfect car. period. I have so many modifications in my car, which will go right onto a 965. It has all the power and more of a supercharged car and with a few improvements (intercooler/ headers/ bigger turbo) you can really get 450/475 hp in this car. wait, save you money (sounds like you are in the same industry as I am when you talk about the winter and that stinging feeling down there......), sell the 951 and the wife's car (she'll undertand, just keep telling her you love her...) and search til you find the right one. When your ready, let me know and i'll point a few out.
and if you travel to New England, I'll bring you to the track (25 miles from my house) and let you take the 964 out. Just be ready to buy when you try it!!!!
andy
Oh
73fj - have put on 33/12.5/15 swampas, 4" rough country lift w/shocks, weber and header (pronounced by my red neck employees as "a weba n a heda"). origional 6 runs like stink. one of my guys has a built 307 which he will give to the cause, but i'm not ready to go big yet.
great pic's your son is a real mini----cooper (Ha, just kidding). I can send you some real numbers next time you go out. I bought a sticker cutter.....
let me know how to get a pic on this thing
Has the rice kid passed away yet??
andy
don't supercharge. Everyone i have talked to, and or have worked on or owned one have been disappointed with supercharging. (wow what a funny sentence). Anyway. go get a 90-94 turbo. don't own one, but have driven many. it is the perfect car. period. I have so many modifications in my car, which will go right onto a 965. It has all the power and more of a supercharged car and with a few improvements (intercooler/ headers/ bigger turbo) you can really get 450/475 hp in this car. wait, save you money (sounds like you are in the same industry as I am when you talk about the winter and that stinging feeling down there......), sell the 951 and the wife's car (she'll undertand, just keep telling her you love her...) and search til you find the right one. When your ready, let me know and i'll point a few out.
and if you travel to New England, I'll bring you to the track (25 miles from my house) and let you take the 964 out. Just be ready to buy when you try it!!!!
andy
Oh
73fj - have put on 33/12.5/15 swampas, 4" rough country lift w/shocks, weber and header (pronounced by my red neck employees as "a weba n a heda"). origional 6 runs like stink. one of my guys has a built 307 which he will give to the cause, but i'm not ready to go big yet.
great pic's your son is a real mini----cooper (Ha, just kidding). I can send you some real numbers next time you go out. I bought a sticker cutter.....
let me know how to get a pic on this thing
Has the rice kid passed away yet??
andy
03-21-2002, 12:30 AM
#43
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I've been scoping C2 turbos for a while. Was getting discouraged, that's what had me thinking about supercharging. The TPC kit wouldn't pass a CA emission visual test though, was hoping they might get CARB clearance by this fall/winter, my timeline for C2 acquistion.
Sell the wife's car? She loves that little 2000 Forerunner with the license frame that sezs "I wanna be Barbie, that bitch has eveything" I want to treat her right, so it's a solo effort to get the C2/965.
Here she is buffing the driver fender for me
Uploading photos- in the reply window, a little Image button prompts for the url, or you can just paste the url for the photo.
Where in Cow Hampshire are ya? Near Loudon/Laconia? I grew in Boston, and summered in Sunapee. My last name is "Kupa" back there.
The rice kid loves getting a rise. He succeded, and emailed me to gloat. He's actually a cool kid, likes to troll though.
Cheers,
Sell the wife's car? She loves that little 2000 Forerunner with the license frame that sezs "I wanna be Barbie, that bitch has eveything" I want to treat her right, so it's a solo effort to get the C2/965.
Here she is buffing the driver fender for me
Uploading photos- in the reply window, a little Image button prompts for the url, or you can just paste the url for the photo.
Where in Cow Hampshire are ya? Near Loudon/Laconia? I grew in Boston, and summered in Sunapee. My last name is "Kupa" back there.
The rice kid loves getting a rise. He succeded, and emailed me to gloat. He's actually a cool kid, likes to troll though.
Cheers,
03-21-2002, 01:13 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
Steve:
Wow. Maybe we need to start talking a trade for my car........Heck, i'll even call her Barbie if she wants........LOL
I live in Henniker, a place you know as near sunapee.
90 to 94 turbos are out there. I'm seeing prices in the low 40's to low 50's. I actually tried to buy a 92 in custom color (med blue metalic) that actually belonged to the ceo of Frito-Lay. had 16.000 miles, all typs of custom factory add ons bla bla bal, missed the sale due to Fla timming of transfers at the dealer.....i think of that car all the time.....
As you may know, the best colors to buy for value on resale is white, red and black, but i'm not much of a red fan (too many tickets in red cars) and black is so hard to keep clean (My 88 is black and such a bitch to keep clean)
As an unsolisited endorsement, call Richard Sloan at 203.675.3235. He is a friend and always has 20-30 real clean cars. he specializes in 79-89 cars, but he will know where to find one. if fact right now he has the Roock 580sp turbo that was on the cover of Excellence a couple of months ago, in his garage. Wants 150 for it, but if i had it......
His car are typiclly low mi, but he also has lots of cars with very low mi, that he only brings our if asked. He is expensive, so you have to work for him, but he is fun to shop with (a hard thing to fin with sales guys.... There are also 7 turbos for sale in Hemmings this month. Do you get hemmings out there?
Ok, if i have a pic on my computer and want to putit on this post, how does a fool like me do it?
tried to cut and paste, that didn't work
andy
Wow. Maybe we need to start talking a trade for my car........Heck, i'll even call her Barbie if she wants........LOL
I live in Henniker, a place you know as near sunapee.
90 to 94 turbos are out there. I'm seeing prices in the low 40's to low 50's. I actually tried to buy a 92 in custom color (med blue metalic) that actually belonged to the ceo of Frito-Lay. had 16.000 miles, all typs of custom factory add ons bla bla bal, missed the sale due to Fla timming of transfers at the dealer.....i think of that car all the time.....
As you may know, the best colors to buy for value on resale is white, red and black, but i'm not much of a red fan (too many tickets in red cars) and black is so hard to keep clean (My 88 is black and such a bitch to keep clean)
As an unsolisited endorsement, call Richard Sloan at 203.675.3235. He is a friend and always has 20-30 real clean cars. he specializes in 79-89 cars, but he will know where to find one. if fact right now he has the Roock 580sp turbo that was on the cover of Excellence a couple of months ago, in his garage. Wants 150 for it, but if i had it......
His car are typiclly low mi, but he also has lots of cars with very low mi, that he only brings our if asked. He is expensive, so you have to work for him, but he is fun to shop with (a hard thing to fin with sales guys.... There are also 7 turbos for sale in Hemmings this month. Do you get hemmings out there?
Ok, if i have a pic on my computer and want to putit on this post, how does a fool like me do it?
tried to cut and paste, that didn't work
andy
03-21-2002, 03:04 PM
#45
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The only Henniker on Earth! At least that's what it says on the honey truck.
I grew up skiing at Pat's Peak. Knew the Patenaudes, Flanders and all. My little sister, now close to forty, was US Jr. Nat Downhill Champ, years ago, racing against the likes of Julie Furtado. Sis was also a former jr. olympiad, and got her start at their racing school in Henniker. My parents still live at Fisher's Bay on the lake. Small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it...
Thanks for the tip, the prices for Turbo C2s are in my price range, as long as it's not a RUF, I want a wide body anyways. I'll have to give your bud a call once I get closer to some disposable green. I don't have issues with buying from a reseller as long as they have some documentation trail for service.
I used to get Hemmings, lived for it every month when I resided back east, sold my Pantera via the yellow press. I should check it out again. I thought everything was online now
BTW, got pulled over on 103B?, I recall that being the highway #... doing a young man's stupid speed in that insane beast between Henniker and Sunapee. That was when speeding tickets were just a little more expensive than lift tickets, and you could log any number of them. Pay em off, go back out and tear up the highway. Kinda like entry fees for a DE event, except a lot cheaper.
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/</a>
try that url for logging onto the forum, perhaps the reply options are different. But here are a few screen caps for reference-
_______________________________________________
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above is the image button you need to click...
and this is the field you get, asking for the web address of the image...
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...or you just type in the name of the image and the server location, like I did with the link to the rennlist forum entry.
Sorry if all this personal banter is taking the thread off track. I need the release
And a closing note, the prettier they are, the more temper they have. <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
Girl? 143
Cheers,
I grew up skiing at Pat's Peak. Knew the Patenaudes, Flanders and all. My little sister, now close to forty, was US Jr. Nat Downhill Champ, years ago, racing against the likes of Julie Furtado. Sis was also a former jr. olympiad, and got her start at their racing school in Henniker. My parents still live at Fisher's Bay on the lake. Small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it...
Thanks for the tip, the prices for Turbo C2s are in my price range, as long as it's not a RUF, I want a wide body anyways. I'll have to give your bud a call once I get closer to some disposable green. I don't have issues with buying from a reseller as long as they have some documentation trail for service.
I used to get Hemmings, lived for it every month when I resided back east, sold my Pantera via the yellow press. I should check it out again. I thought everything was online now
BTW, got pulled over on 103B?, I recall that being the highway #... doing a young man's stupid speed in that insane beast between Henniker and Sunapee. That was when speeding tickets were just a little more expensive than lift tickets, and you could log any number of them. Pay em off, go back out and tear up the highway. Kinda like entry fees for a DE event, except a lot cheaper.
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/</a>
try that url for logging onto the forum, perhaps the reply options are different. But here are a few screen caps for reference-
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
above is the image button you need to click...
and this is the field you get, asking for the web address of the image...
... in this field enter the name of your website or web server that you can upload an image file to...
...or you just type in the name of the image and the server location, like I did with the link to the rennlist forum entry.
Sorry if all this personal banter is taking the thread off track. I need the release
And a closing note, the prettier they are, the more temper they have. <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
Girl? 143
Cheers,