1988 911
02-14-2005, 07:44 PM
#16
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Scott.
Who did the PPI? Is this for sale by a dealer? Are you sure the tire sizes are correct? (higher profile should be on the front tire) What is the VIN# and I'll run a history report for you. The no documentation is a BIG issue, without that I would have a hard time paying "more"...any pics availale?
Also, the aftermarket steering wheel and exhaust do nothing to increase the value on a low mile car unless the originals go with the car too...
Who did the PPI? Is this for sale by a dealer? Are you sure the tire sizes are correct? (higher profile should be on the front tire) What is the VIN# and I'll run a history report for you. The no documentation is a BIG issue, without that I would have a hard time paying "more"...any pics availale?
Also, the aftermarket steering wheel and exhaust do nothing to increase the value on a low mile car unless the originals go with the car too...
02-14-2005, 08:23 PM
#17
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Oh boy. The tires ( rear) are the wrong size. Should be 225/50x16. Typo?
NO DOCUMENTATION? i.e., NO RECEIPTS? A word of warning - that car could have far more miles on it than the odo shows. Condition has been known to fool even experts! No documentation, NO top dollar - period. This is now business, don't get emotional about the car, yet.
Borla. Does the car come with its original muffler, particular owners will almost always keep the take-off. Is the catalytic converter there, and will the seller provide a change of ownership smog cert?
Options rarely affect the sales price, just the speed at which it sells.
No docs...That always scares me!
Pete
NO DOCUMENTATION? i.e., NO RECEIPTS? A word of warning - that car could have far more miles on it than the odo shows. Condition has been known to fool even experts! No documentation, NO top dollar - period. This is now business, don't get emotional about the car, yet.
Borla. Does the car come with its original muffler, particular owners will almost always keep the take-off. Is the catalytic converter there, and will the seller provide a change of ownership smog cert?
Options rarely affect the sales price, just the speed at which it sells.
No docs...That always scares me!
Pete
02-14-2005, 08:26 PM
#18
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Scott
No docs weakens its history but it is a 28K car so there probably has not been a lot done. Is the service book available? It should have stamps from the original owner & his service record with the dealer. I didn't get many bills either, but I do have the service book. For many low mileage cars that is enough . . . imho.
The rear tire is a bit weird since it is a 60 series rather than the 'normal' 50 series for mating with a 55 in the front.
If you haven't figured them out yet:
C02 Equipped with catalytic converter
158 Radio "Monterey" - 86 "Reno" - 87
243 Shorter gear shift lever
395 Light metal wheels - forged
454 Automatic Speed Control - USA, Canada
650 Sunroof
So what is the asking price?
Ian
No docs weakens its history but it is a 28K car so there probably has not been a lot done. Is the service book available? It should have stamps from the original owner & his service record with the dealer. I didn't get many bills either, but I do have the service book. For many low mileage cars that is enough . . . imho.
The rear tire is a bit weird since it is a 60 series rather than the 'normal' 50 series for mating with a 55 in the front.
If you haven't figured them out yet:
C02 Equipped with catalytic converter
158 Radio "Monterey" - 86 "Reno" - 87
243 Shorter gear shift lever
395 Light metal wheels - forged
454 Automatic Speed Control - USA, Canada
650 Sunroof
So what is the asking price?
Ian
02-14-2005, 09:17 PM
#19
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Thread Starter
Guys... thanks so much for all of your input. I am equally concerned about the lack of documentation. The rear wheels are supposed to be off of a turbo. I don't mind posting the link, but please no one steal from me. http://www.hatchandsons.com/pages/sa...facturers/2349. VIN is WPOAB0911JS120986. I really appreciate everyone's help!!! I offered them $30k delivered to my driveway; this includes everything. Am I off my rocker?
Thanks.
Thanks.
02-14-2005, 09:26 PM
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I will run a report for you, the pics you showed do not show the wear areas I would want to see if trying to verify condition/miles (have your seen more?), did you pay for a PPI, or did they?
The more you say about it the stranger it gets (rear Turbo Wheels)
Sorry cant run the report - I have exceeded my limit for 6 months! Have they supplied you with a carfax? Someone else here that can run it????
The more you say about it the stranger it gets (rear Turbo Wheels)
Sorry cant run the report - I have exceeded my limit for 6 months! Have they supplied you with a carfax? Someone else here that can run it????
02-14-2005, 09:35 PM
#21
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OK. It looks very, very good. Have you seen it & driven it?
It is in the NE, which makes it more - not worth more, just costing more. It is from a premium dealer which adds ~ $5K alone. Hmmm. Bear in mind, this premium value will erode as soon as you start putting miles on.
If you are after a concours garage queen & intend to keep it that way, pay the money. If you want it to flog, save $8K & get a higher mileage example for $22K or so.
If you buy it, make it part of the deal that they have to replace the rear tires with 225/50-16. They can afford the $500 with their profit margin.
Ian
It is in the NE, which makes it more - not worth more, just costing more. It is from a premium dealer which adds ~ $5K alone. Hmmm. Bear in mind, this premium value will erode as soon as you start putting miles on.
If you are after a concours garage queen & intend to keep it that way, pay the money. If you want it to flog, save $8K & get a higher mileage example for $22K or so.
If you buy it, make it part of the deal that they have to replace the rear tires with 225/50-16. They can afford the $500 with their profit margin.
Ian
02-14-2005, 09:36 PM
#22
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Thread Starter
Hatch & Sons said she looks nice with the Turbo rear wheels. Hatch & Sons completed the PPI. I don't know anyone in the area that could do one. Is this totally stupid? I can scan the PPI and post.
02-14-2005, 09:44 PM
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Their PPI is worthless, at the very least have them take it to the nearest Porsche Dealer and have it done (your cost)...HAve you seen other pics? Motor> drivers seat, under the hood with the carpet out? Etc ETC ETC!!!!!! Unless you just have money to burn, take your time and do this right, get rid of your emotion and be smart about it, The PPI (one that you pay for) will show something, this will help you gett a better price and know what the real deal is on the car. More Hi-Res Photos are a must if you have not seen the car in person. I'd really like to see a CARFAX as well. I would have done all these things before talking price...
would not worry about it getting snatched up, if it was all they say it is it would already be gone, the "no records" will make this car take a while to sell, remember you will have the same problem when you go to sell it...
Having said all of that, the car does look great in their photos, and I would not "not buy it" but I would get the price right for what it is!!!
Someone get this man a CARFAX PLZ! (of course you could go to carfax.com and get on yourself, its cheap, most dealers provide them for free to prospective buyers...
would not worry about it getting snatched up, if it was all they say it is it would already be gone, the "no records" will make this car take a while to sell, remember you will have the same problem when you go to sell it...
Having said all of that, the car does look great in their photos, and I would not "not buy it" but I would get the price right for what it is!!!
Someone get this man a CARFAX PLZ! (of course you could go to carfax.com and get on yourself, its cheap, most dealers provide them for free to prospective buyers...
02-14-2005, 09:58 PM
#24
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Thread Starter
Curt... no, have no money to burn. No other pics, but they have offered to take some this past weekend. The weather was bad, and they said they would take as many as I wanted. My preference would be to fly up and drive home, but I can't get out of work at this time. I agree, my emotions are running high, but this is one of supposed cleanest I have found. From what I can tell Hatch & Sons are a very reputable firm. I guess it stills does not matter.
Thanks.
Thanks.
02-14-2005, 10:13 PM
#26
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Thanks, Scott.
Now, about your purchase. Take 2 big steps back. Breathe. There are a lot of Porsches on the market. Put your cheque book back in your wallet for another couple of days.
You MUST insist on THEM providing you with a CarFax. They all have accounts. You want to see it. They can & will provide it if they have nothing to hide. CarFaxes are less than 100% remember anyway.
You MUST take their PPI with a grain of salt. Get an independent garage to do a PPI. Many dealers blow a gasket at this but you must insist. Spend the extra $200 - $300. Compression, leakdown, tranny, driving test. I am sure that you can find a suitable wrench nearby. Rennlisters or Pelicans can help too.
Ian
Now, about your purchase. Take 2 big steps back. Breathe. There are a lot of Porsches on the market. Put your cheque book back in your wallet for another couple of days.
You MUST insist on THEM providing you with a CarFax. They all have accounts. You want to see it. They can & will provide it if they have nothing to hide. CarFaxes are less than 100% remember anyway.
You MUST take their PPI with a grain of salt. Get an independent garage to do a PPI. Many dealers blow a gasket at this but you must insist. Spend the extra $200 - $300. Compression, leakdown, tranny, driving test. I am sure that you can find a suitable wrench nearby. Rennlisters or Pelicans can help too.
Ian
02-14-2005, 11:45 PM
#28
Originally Posted by scott watkins
The fellow tells me that the car could show and win.
I've got a relatively low mileage 964 and low mile cars have their own set of problems. Seals dry out from non use and rubber components don't stop aging just because there are low miles. Everything has to be checked out...
Last edited by Jay H; 02-15-2005 at 12:13 AM.
02-14-2005, 11:52 PM
#29
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glad Chris came up with a CARFAX!
I guess I'm just a bit skeptical because the steering wheel and exhaust are 2 things that would really reflect mileage/wear on the car, and they are gone. The drivers seat would tell a lot too, past that I would want a pair of eyes on it that were in my court, not the dealers. Because of the age, and I'm not sure in MA but prob. is, the title will prob show EXEMPT for the miles. Also, as others have brought up, a car thats been driven so little may have a bunch of "getting ready to happen" problem waiting for you and only an experienced 911 tech may catch them on a PPI....
I understand the emotion, it looks so nice, and it you don't already own a 911 I'm sure its even worse for you. The only thing I would add is a front spoiler!
Keep us posted Scott
I guess I'm just a bit skeptical because the steering wheel and exhaust are 2 things that would really reflect mileage/wear on the car, and they are gone. The drivers seat would tell a lot too, past that I would want a pair of eyes on it that were in my court, not the dealers. Because of the age, and I'm not sure in MA but prob. is, the title will prob show EXEMPT for the miles. Also, as others have brought up, a car thats been driven so little may have a bunch of "getting ready to happen" problem waiting for you and only an experienced 911 tech may catch them on a PPI....
I understand the emotion, it looks so nice, and it you don't already own a 911 I'm sure its even worse for you. The only thing I would add is a front spoiler!
Keep us posted Scott
02-15-2005, 01:44 AM
#30
Racer
This has all the ingredients of a situation going sideways. Someone posted earlier that a top dollar, low mileage car should have no stories, period. This car appears to have more stories than Steven King.
* No receipts/documents, possibly belying higher mileage.
* Incorrect steering wheel, possibly belying higher mileage.
* Incorrect exhaust, possibly.....well, you know.
* Incorrect rear wheels. Having "Turbo" rear wheels implies that the rear tire
size should be around 245/45-16. It should NOT have a 60-series tire on it,
"turbo" wheel or not. Can a 225-width tire even be put on a Turbo wheel
safely?
* A PPI by the dealer selling it? If the car's authentic, they should be going
out of their way to prove it. That means going to any shop of YOUR choice
(within reasonable distances).
Here are a couple of shots of MY 29,000 mile 1987 Coupe:
OK, I lied, mine is a 141,000 mile car. Point is, they can look pretty good, if they're well-taken care of.
I don't know about this one, something just smells a little. It looks like a nice car in the photos, but appears to have enough stories to be named "Christine".
* No receipts/documents, possibly belying higher mileage.
* Incorrect steering wheel, possibly belying higher mileage.
* Incorrect exhaust, possibly.....well, you know.
* Incorrect rear wheels. Having "Turbo" rear wheels implies that the rear tire
size should be around 245/45-16. It should NOT have a 60-series tire on it,
"turbo" wheel or not. Can a 225-width tire even be put on a Turbo wheel
safely?
* A PPI by the dealer selling it? If the car's authentic, they should be going
out of their way to prove it. That means going to any shop of YOUR choice
(within reasonable distances).
Here are a couple of shots of MY 29,000 mile 1987 Coupe:
OK, I lied, mine is a 141,000 mile car. Point is, they can look pretty good, if they're well-taken care of.
I don't know about this one, something just smells a little. It looks like a nice car in the photos, but appears to have enough stories to be named "Christine".