AJAKE7796

Attached is a photo of my '77' Carrera after the installation of a new clutch (and a transmission rebuild). I took this 'in shop' photo during the rebuild process. Later, after I paid the P shop, I was going through the Porsche rebuild photos on my computer. This one set the alarm bells off. I have done engine rebuilds, 351C (Pantera) that is. But in looking at my detailed shop bill, I noticed no charge for a flywheel resurfacing or for a crankshaft oil seal. My understanding is that a proper clutch replacement almost always involves a flywheel resurfacing and replacement of the rear crankshaft seal, especially on a modified Carrera engine. I got the impression that the job was rushed when I went to pick up the car, as a number of minor items were not done. No big deal, but at $100 an hour shop rates I expect the full and undivided attention, a 25 year plus expert P-mechanic should devote to such matters. The double bind is if I ask him he can say yes, and he is telling me the truth, but sorry fact is I have no proof it was done. If I hear no, and it is a rear crank seal leak and the flywheel wasn't resurfaced, I gonna be pissed. Any constructive input highly appriciated.
Cheers,
AJAKE7796

chrisp

Not sure what you are asking for.

AJAKE7796

1: Does the oil sludge on the crankcase at the 6 o'clock below the flywheel appear to indicate a crankshaft seal failure ?

2: In my itemized shop bill there is no indication that the flywheel was resurfaced or a new crankshaft seal installed. To my mind this would be a no brainer to an experienced engine builder; as to why I might feel a little concerned as the costs involved in dropping an engine in the future to replace a leaking $28 crankseal would not sit well with anyone. I would imagine resurfacing the flywheel while replacing a badly worn clutch would cost $50-100, a total two or three percent of the overall cost of repair.

3: What am I asking ? The obvious, If your paying a pro to do the job correctly expect the job to be done right. The itemized bill of every part replaced or R&R'd is essential to proper documentationof a rebuild. Failing that, a careing Porsche owner might be very concerned, as to whether or not the above jobs were done. Withhout this essential data; i.e. that the rear crankseal was replaced and the flywheel was resurfaced, one is essentially in the dark, with no backup.

4: posting this so others might benefit

r911

Tell him you want to know if it was done; and if he says yes, then tell him you want it in writing as you want to be able to document that for the next owner when you sell. If he refuses, well.....

Peter Zimmermann

AJAKE: Different shops have different standards, especially when it comes to cleanliness. The grunge at 6:00 o'clock, on your crankcase below the flywheel, was washed away on every clutch job done at my shop. Basically, after the flywheel is removed, to replace the crank seal and pilot shaft bearing (both items were replaced on every clutch we did), the entire section of engine case around the seal was washed. The solvent naturally ran down and over the grungy area on the engine, and we always cleaned that area at the same time. I felt that if we ever had a crank seal leak, oil dripping from a clean surface would be an instant tipoff, and we could replace the faulty seal before returning the car to its owner. However, the grunge is not an indicator that the seal and pilot shaft bearing were not replaced, and an oversight on the parts you were charged for is possible. The flywheel, on the other hand, is a judgement call - sometimes they're almost perfect (OK to use again as-is), and sometimes they're burned/worn beyond recognition. In between the extremes is when resurfacing is recommended, but there is a fair chance that the flywheel was fine. Hope this helps - Randy's suggestion to get verification in writing from your mechanic is a good idea.
Pete

theasphaltgambler

I'm a tech and at our shop we would replace the rear seal and at least re-finish if not resurface the flywheel no matter if it was a '81 Toyota corrolla.

I can assure you that if the seal is not listed and the labor was not charged it was not done. Shops now seem to charge the customer for everything including air so it's not a listing mistake.

AJAKE7796

Armed with the timely guidence and advice of you rennlisters that cared to help, I feel secure that a cool head and gentile reason will overcome any difficulties in settling the matter to my satisfaction....
Cheers,
AJAKE7796

umfan866

Well I wouldn't recommend going that far... you'll have all the time in the world to spend with your engine...behind bars! Now I know why rebuilds cost so much, AND vary so much in cost! Good luck!

Jay Gratton

And AJAKE lives near me!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AJAKE, PM what shop you had the problem with, I would love to know and maybe I could help.

AJAKE7796

"Well I wouldn't recommend going that far... you'll have all the time in the world to spend with your engine...behind bars!"

UMFAN866, Being from California I understand your concern, but the AR is legal and the magazine is a pre-ban, it's registered and I have a class 'A' LTC.

Jay thanks your offer, as far as the P-shop; I would chalk it up as 'a failure to communicate', since I have 'no rabbit blood in me'. I believe face to face chat with the shop owner is the next logical step. I am confidant that we can arrive at an amicable solution and remain friends, if that fails I'm buying a full race 'Trablant' use once and throw away.....'I'm going all in'

'Cool Hand' AJAKE
Illegitimati non Carborundum