stv951

Be aware. 911s bite back. They are dangerous cars requiring your attention when driven hard....You need to be quick when it goes...

I've been reading this in all types of tests, used car buying guids, classic car articles etc. I've been driving 911s for 12 years now (including a 400bhp 964 T 3,3) , and never experienced that.
What is wrong with me??? Am I driving too slow to miss all this fun ???

Avenger6

Porsche spent a lot of time and effort to reduce and nearly eliminate the "trailing throttle oversteer" problem. It was a really bad problem with the early cars, and by the MY1978 cars like yours, much progress had been made. Longer wheel base, wider tires, etc were all done fairly early on. Plus, modern tires, even in the same sizes as the originals, are much grippier and more stable than the old ones.

I HAVE experienced this problem, but only in low traction situations. I had just moved to a new part of the country, and was out for a drive. I came into a decreasing radius curve that caught me by surprise. It also had some gravel on the outside. Well, I got into the gravel, made the cardinal sin of lifting out of the throttle, and I was backwards in a big hurry.

My first car was a VW Beetle, and I was going straight down a snowy road one day. I didn't realize how icy it was under the snow until I lifted to slow for an upcoming turn. The engine braking effect was enough to cause the rear tires to lose traction, and there I was, going backwards along an icy road.

Both of these spins happenned so fast that I could not/did not react fast enough to control or stop the spin. I could only react afterwards by braking hard and steering as much as possible.

It IS a very real problem. Count yourself lucky that it has not happened to you. With a newer 911 with good modern tires, you'd have to either have a sudden unexpected loss of traction (Ice, gravel, oil spill) or be going really fast to break the rear tires loose from lifting out of the throttle. I know that lifting the throttle on a 911 at these times is a bad thing to do, but too much time driving other cars causes that reaction to usually be the first one for me. I think you'd have to spend a lot of time on the track, maybe even a wet skid pad to train your reactions to NOT LIFT, since that is counter to just about every other car out there.

art

Do some kart racing. This will prepare you well as the basic ones only have rear brakes. This teaches you to brake in a fairly straight line and not to make sudden moves with the throttle while cornering. Good stuff and very cheap.

Doug&Julie

I read SO much about this before actually owning a 911 that when I finally owned one (three!) I was always very cautious when driving in a spirited way. And fortunately I've never been caught out by surprise like Avenger6.

Now POWER ON oversteer...that's fun.

MAS

I've never experienced it either... and I've driven my car pretty hard at times. It has always felt more "planted" than almost any other car I've driven.

Reviewers seem to imply that 911's are ready to "let go" at almost any minute... even during normal driving. This is clearly a myth... when it comes to "normal" driving.


-MAS

Noel

You sound like a perfect candidate for some autocrossing or Drivers Education (Track Driving) with the PCA. Both of these programs will offer you an opportunity to learn the handling capabilities of your car.

BTW, any car will oversteer under braking late into a turn and many will do the same with lifting the throttle mid-turn. It is just a matter of physics (wieght shifting from the rear tires to the front). The more on the edge you are the easier it is to make this happen. The 911 just makes this movement faster since the weight is at the rear, they tend to quickly snap around. But even this action can be controlled with practice.

stv951

I agree with Noel that any car would oversteer under braking late into a turn, but never had trouble with my 911s even driven hard. That was my initial point. My car now has 7s and 9s x16 fuchs with worn rear tyres. I am sure things are different in the rain, but I drive every car with respect in slippery conditions. So there is no myth about 911s. I do occassionally enjoy power oversteer though which I can say is VERY controllable (2nd gear)

Drew Theodore

I have a 911SC so the longer body with the wider tires makes a huge difference. I have noticed that as long as I brake in a straight line, I can go through a corner faster because I can give my car more throttle through the corner than I can a front engine, rear wheel drive car. It is almost a sling shot effect. It is just a matter of getting used to the car.

gerry100

My experience came on my first track day at Watkins Glen. Turn 1.

Tired, red mist, inexperience and too hot going in. When the rear stepped out I instinctivley lifted with the result that I backed into the gravel trap at about 60mph.

I've since learned that a little countersteer and staying on the throttle to maintain grip would have brought me thru nicely.

The 911's rear weigth bias increase the suddeness and degree of the lift throttle oversteer, but also provides tremendous grip when the throttle is applied. In addition the 911 communicates so well ( when you learn the "language") that you can learn to use this to your advantage.

I track with a lot of M3s ( new and old) and find that my 18 yr old 911 can out corner many of them as I learn to use my cars advantages. Straights are another story.

If you go through a corner at moderate speed and feather the throttle, you'll notice that a slight lift will result in a the nose turning in slightly. This is throttle steer , or a useful refinement of lift throttle oversteer.

John Brandt

Any car will TTO under the right conditions and a big lift is NEVER the appropriate response.

FWIW, My '76 Ford Capri was much more inclined to this than any Porker I've ever driven.

GrantG

I was going to answer the poll but there is no answer that says something like "Yes I have and it's quite controllable and tons of fun"

TMH

I had previously only driven the C4 towards its limits prior to the last weekend in June at Laguna Seca. Obviously, the C4 has a tendancy towards understeer, and I will say that this car definitely makes up for my lack of driving skills. I had gotten it into a little 4-wheel drift on some gravel once, but it essentially righted itself, and generally just does anything I ask it to do.

Fast forward to that June weekend at Laguna, and our first DE in the 3.2 track car. I hit the apex at turn 9 just a little early, but I stay on the power anyway (and this is a downhill section of the track). I'm running out of track to my right. Did I lift? I really don't recall, but I assume that I must have. Before I know it, rear end was swapping ends with the front end. Both feet in with light braking and I end up backing off the track on the opposite (left) side. Fortunately plenty of run-off room where I was, so nothing more than some dirty tires.

Actually the spin was kind of fun after-the-fact. Really slow-mo while it was occurring. What sticks close to home was the speed at which it initiated and happened. There are a lot of much better drivers out there, who would not have gotten themselves into this situation in the first place. But once the spin started, I doubt that anyone could have negated it.

Tom

stv951

Don't forget to vote please !!!!

Doug&Julie

Anybody who votes "I don't drive it that hard" should be removed from the club.

Clipboard

FWIW, I think the newer the 911 the less the chance of a 'dragon bite'. When I got into the first one I drove -1967 911S - the crew chief just said 'if you start to lose it, let go of the steering wheel'. Later on (in the rain), I dove inside another car and found a big puddle at the apex. ***** in - well I've lost it anyway - hands off the wheel out - bloody awesome! I have great respect for the guys who took out those early swb 911s and really hustled them down the road. They were designed to go off backwards and hit tail first as a safety aspect. Also FWIW, I've spun in LOTS of cars - that's where the end of the edge is found. Peter Gregg used to attack every individual corner until he spun there, then he mentally ratchetted back until he was perfect.
john