Attempting to buy a 3.2,having second thoughts
#76
It would be silly to dismiss a great SC for no reason other than "internet said so"
There are thousands of very happy SC owners out there.
If you buy an SC and CIS needs a fix, then go get it fixed.
Again, you don't have much of a choice in what is in your search radius of 2-3 hours.
How big is your search radius?
Most people who start to shop never actually end up owning one.
#77
Rennlist Member
This is when the internet backfires.
It would be silly to dismiss a great SC for no reason other than "internet said so"
There are thousands of very happy SC owners out there.
If you buy an SC and CIS needs a fix, then go get it fixed.
Again, you don't have much of a choice in what is in your search radius of 2-3 hours.
How big is your search radius?
Most people who start to shop never actually end up owning one.
It would be silly to dismiss a great SC for no reason other than "internet said so"
There are thousands of very happy SC owners out there.
If you buy an SC and CIS needs a fix, then go get it fixed.
Again, you don't have much of a choice in what is in your search radius of 2-3 hours.
How big is your search radius?
Most people who start to shop never actually end up owning one.
All great points. If you limit your search radius to 2-3 hours I don't think it will work. Well maybe in California and a healthy budget.
I hope that your last statement isn't a fact. That would suck.
#78
Rennlist Member
BTW, Pete Z's book "The Used 911 Story" is a perfect place to start to learn about the strengths and weaknesses of each of the air cooled 911 years. It's essentially a very useful buyer's guide. Pete is also a Rennlister and posts in these threads occasionally.
#80
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
I have a 73 with 915 then added a 70E 901.
you are right.
that's another experience.
some find 901 vague... maybe they don't have sensitive hands. it shifts just fine. loving mine. but back to G body
all of them are good. just find one that's well kept. forget EFI, CIS, 915 or G50. find the best car in your budget
#81
And about the tranny debate, there's no question the G50 is the more robust of the two.
The 915 has its idiosyncracies as has been beaten to death in many threads.
To name two, the shifter is "clunky" for lack of a better word and it shifts when it's ready as already discussed in ...
https://rennlist.com/forums/911-forum/1086461-915-1-2-shift.html#post15189888
Have a fun read and good luck with the search.
#83
All I am saying is that Motronic is preferred over CIS,
but that may not be a reason to skip over an otherwise great SC (Low miles, careful owner, mint condition, garaged, fair price, etc)
Here is some reading about the CIS vs Motronic.
Some prefer CIS. Seems like not a big deal to adjust it.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...-motronic.html
Motronic overview
https://books.google.com/books?id=on...tronic&f=false
but that may not be a reason to skip over an otherwise great SC (Low miles, careful owner, mint condition, garaged, fair price, etc)
Here is some reading about the CIS vs Motronic.
Some prefer CIS. Seems like not a big deal to adjust it.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...-motronic.html
Motronic overview
https://books.google.com/books?id=on...tronic&f=false
#84
Rennlist Member
Allow me to settle this 915 vs. G50 with my verbal sledgehammer.
A correctly adjusted and serviced 915 is a perfectly good gearbox. It was in production for the better part of 2 decades. It is not defective. It was not recalled. It was not subject to lemon laws. Contrary to internet folklore, remarkably, it actually does shifts the gears. Go figure! Are you going to be shifting with lighting precision where every 1/10 second counts? No, you are not. If you were, you wouldn't be looking at a 30 year old car in the first place, and you'd be driving a modern car with triple the horsepower and PDK, like the pros. If you get a 915 and it's worn out or needing adjustment, just get that fixed. Reliability of the G50 vs 915? The bottom line is that if either gearbox needs service, you're looking at thousands to get it fixed.
If you can operate a clutch, you can drive a 915. Period. Sure, it might take a minute to adjust to the heavier pedal and looser throw, but it's just a gearbox, not some arcane medieval abacus contraption that people can't operate without an long apprenticeship and flight training. The internet anti-hype surrounding the 915 borders on ludicrous. I don't have to pause between gears when shifting my 915 gearbox. I just shift. I can also shift into 1st while rolling to a stop. Unless a pre-G50 tranny is defective or badly in need or service, anyone can drive it.
Here is a premise worth considering. Some buyers say they are used to a modern Honda gearbox, and that's why they prefer to find a G50. I'll suggest that the entire point of getting an air cooled 911 (and paying top dollar for the privilege) is to have a vintage "leather goggles" driving experience. No power steering. Suspension firmness opposite of "floaty sofa". Mechanical clutch. No nanny assist or stereo or DVD player or Navigation. An exhaust rumble. Even an oil dipstick! The very point of buying an old 911 is that it's nothing like your modern convenient Honda, and that it's different. In that regard, a 915 gearbox is more authentically vintage than a G50 anyway. The guy that wants a modern gearbox probably would not be happy in a 30 year old car in the first place, and might prefer a 997, right?
In general, there is too much "Road & Track" data specification analysis/paralysis out there, and not enough test driving. How large is your search radius? You might want to increase it to 2-3 hours. Once you drive these cars, you will see the differences are trivial for road driving. Shopping for cars is a fun journey, but to pull the trigger, the first step is to forget about the G50 vs. 915 debate. Comparing weight of an SC and 3.2 is also very academic. For 99% of your driving, the differences are moot.
After you decide on '78-'89 or just '84-'89, shopping for your car is not like ticking off a "build sheet" for a new $150k car you are ordering from the factory. You are limited by real world constraints of what is available and crosses your path, even if you plan to budget $1000 for each car you jump on a plane to visit. Make it your goal to physically view 5 cars soon. With that, you will get a better sense of what is out there, because when the right car comes around, you are not going to have time to dilly dally and think about it. It will be sold from right under you. You need to get to a place where you know the market, the basic range of condition of cars out there, and be ready with a stack of cash.
The last word in this discussion is to buy your SC or 3.2 in the right condition and history, from the right owner, within your search radius, at a price you're comfortable with.
A correctly adjusted and serviced 915 is a perfectly good gearbox. It was in production for the better part of 2 decades. It is not defective. It was not recalled. It was not subject to lemon laws. Contrary to internet folklore, remarkably, it actually does shifts the gears. Go figure! Are you going to be shifting with lighting precision where every 1/10 second counts? No, you are not. If you were, you wouldn't be looking at a 30 year old car in the first place, and you'd be driving a modern car with triple the horsepower and PDK, like the pros. If you get a 915 and it's worn out or needing adjustment, just get that fixed. Reliability of the G50 vs 915? The bottom line is that if either gearbox needs service, you're looking at thousands to get it fixed.
If you can operate a clutch, you can drive a 915. Period. Sure, it might take a minute to adjust to the heavier pedal and looser throw, but it's just a gearbox, not some arcane medieval abacus contraption that people can't operate without an long apprenticeship and flight training. The internet anti-hype surrounding the 915 borders on ludicrous. I don't have to pause between gears when shifting my 915 gearbox. I just shift. I can also shift into 1st while rolling to a stop. Unless a pre-G50 tranny is defective or badly in need or service, anyone can drive it.
Here is a premise worth considering. Some buyers say they are used to a modern Honda gearbox, and that's why they prefer to find a G50. I'll suggest that the entire point of getting an air cooled 911 (and paying top dollar for the privilege) is to have a vintage "leather goggles" driving experience. No power steering. Suspension firmness opposite of "floaty sofa". Mechanical clutch. No nanny assist or stereo or DVD player or Navigation. An exhaust rumble. Even an oil dipstick! The very point of buying an old 911 is that it's nothing like your modern convenient Honda, and that it's different. In that regard, a 915 gearbox is more authentically vintage than a G50 anyway. The guy that wants a modern gearbox probably would not be happy in a 30 year old car in the first place, and might prefer a 997, right?
In general, there is too much "Road & Track" data specification analysis/paralysis out there, and not enough test driving. How large is your search radius? You might want to increase it to 2-3 hours. Once you drive these cars, you will see the differences are trivial for road driving. Shopping for cars is a fun journey, but to pull the trigger, the first step is to forget about the G50 vs. 915 debate. Comparing weight of an SC and 3.2 is also very academic. For 99% of your driving, the differences are moot.
After you decide on '78-'89 or just '84-'89, shopping for your car is not like ticking off a "build sheet" for a new $150k car you are ordering from the factory. You are limited by real world constraints of what is available and crosses your path, even if you plan to budget $1000 for each car you jump on a plane to visit. Make it your goal to physically view 5 cars soon. With that, you will get a better sense of what is out there, because when the right car comes around, you are not going to have time to dilly dally and think about it. It will be sold from right under you. You need to get to a place where you know the market, the basic range of condition of cars out there, and be ready with a stack of cash.
The last word in this discussion is to buy your SC or 3.2 in the right condition and history, from the right owner, within your search radius, at a price you're comfortable with.
After reading the 915 vs G50 back and forth for about thirty years, I'm so glad I bought my 3.2 in 1985 before I had to think about the issue; it came with a 915 and that was that . It just goes and gives me joy. I also own a 2011 997.2 with an unbelievably good six speed manual transmission. In fact, the 997 is just about perfect , in my mind. But you know what, if I'm by myself, unless it's really hot outside, I'm drawn to the 3.2. There's just something about the 3.2; the engine,the transmission,and the chassis work together. The crown jewel of my fleet! Just get a good one, and don't worry about the transmission type. Mike
#85
Instructor
I will throw my hat into the ring here. I currently have an '84. The 1984 3.2 is like a 911SC but has EFI. The radio antenna is still on the fender, the seats, dash, etc are all basically an SC. The '85 seemed to have gotten the antenna in the windshield and electric upgraded seats. The '86 got the new dash with the bigger vents of the later 87-89s. I have owned an 86 Targa, an 84 Targa, and an 89 coupe. I don't mind the 915 at all. Sometimes I wish it had that spring thing that kept the stick centered though. The G50 feels really good to shift with nice cha'clunk sounds throwing it into the gears. I don't like to shift quickly so I guess it doesn't bother me with the travel both transmissions require for a shift. I like to kinda savor the shift.
I like the spring loaded clutch pedal more than the hydraulic of the g50 cars. It feels way easier to push the pedal and shift. I remember the G50 totally wearing me out in traffic with the hydraulic clutch. If this were my first 911 I would recommend an 87-89 coupe with the G50. The second 911 to buy after that should be a targa with a 915. The only solution is to just own both
I like the spring loaded clutch pedal more than the hydraulic of the g50 cars. It feels way easier to push the pedal and shift. I remember the G50 totally wearing me out in traffic with the hydraulic clutch. If this were my first 911 I would recommend an 87-89 coupe with the G50. The second 911 to buy after that should be a targa with a 915. The only solution is to just own both
#86
All I am saying is that Motronic is preferred over CIS,
but that may not be a reason to skip over an otherwise great SC (Low miles, careful owner, mint condition, garaged, fair price, etc)
Here is some reading about the CIS vs Motronic.
Some prefer CIS. Seems like not a big deal to adjust it.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...-motronic.html
Motronic overview
https://books.google.com/books?id=on...tronic&f=false
but that may not be a reason to skip over an otherwise great SC (Low miles, careful owner, mint condition, garaged, fair price, etc)
Here is some reading about the CIS vs Motronic.
Some prefer CIS. Seems like not a big deal to adjust it.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...-motronic.html
Motronic overview
https://books.google.com/books?id=on...tronic&f=false
#88
Rennlist Member
Very informative thread! Thanks for starting it :-)
I may be able to get my hands on a 1984 3.2 Coupe. A friend of mine purchased it back in 2002 with 80,000ish miles.
It currently has about 140,000 miles.
Mechanically its in great shape but he said the transmission is in need of a some love, he can manage it since he double clutch sifts up and rev matches down shifts but he recommends getting the transmission serviced.
Cosmetically it could use a few minor touch up and surface rust repairs but over all its a solid car.
We are good friends so we are trying to come up with a fair price keeping in mind it would be an easy transaction for both of us.
So... any estimates from you folks on what $ value we should put on it?
Please and thank you :-)
I may be able to get my hands on a 1984 3.2 Coupe. A friend of mine purchased it back in 2002 with 80,000ish miles.
It currently has about 140,000 miles.
Mechanically its in great shape but he said the transmission is in need of a some love, he can manage it since he double clutch sifts up and rev matches down shifts but he recommends getting the transmission serviced.
Cosmetically it could use a few minor touch up and surface rust repairs but over all its a solid car.
We are good friends so we are trying to come up with a fair price keeping in mind it would be an easy transaction for both of us.
So... any estimates from you folks on what $ value we should put on it?
Please and thank you :-)
#89
Rennlist Member
At 144k mi top end is going to be due soon if not already done.
Leakdown and compression will tell you. Oil burn too. If a friend he will tell you about oil consumption.
Negotiate that into the price. Stocks and rubber bits add to the 35 year old cost to refresh.
Fun cars but at this age and mileage someone soon will be on the hook for big dollars.
Price it into the deal.
Leakdown and compression will tell you. Oil burn too. If a friend he will tell you about oil consumption.
Negotiate that into the price. Stocks and rubber bits add to the 35 year old cost to refresh.
Fun cars but at this age and mileage someone soon will be on the hook for big dollars.
Price it into the deal.
#90
Rennlist Member
^^Thank you 996AE for those points.