I am making reproduction Porsche engine cases!
08-14-2017, 08:20 PM
#61
2.7 reproduction case
Yes, this would be huge. An aluminium case for a 2.7 motor.. how many people would be lining up for this?
I'd imagine almost as many people that have a 2.7 would be wanting this.
08-15-2017, 06:13 PM
#62
Instructor
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sunny Southern California, USA
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This sounds promising for Air cooled engine rebuilds. I just have 1 question about engine serial numbers, will there be a special plate to show some kind of serial or identification number?
08-15-2017, 06:36 PM
#63
Banned
Thread Starter
Speed Addict,
The plan is to engrave our own serial numbers in the standard case location. Believe me, this was tossed around a lot in the beginning; at one point I was going to let people pick their own numbers and then I would engrave them.
Unfortunately that doesn't really leave me with a record of each case sold. If one blows up down the line I would like to know when it was made, in what batch, and to whom it was originally sold. This data simply helps with quality control.
So I have my own serial numbering scheme which will go on the cases.
The plan is to engrave our own serial numbers in the standard case location. Believe me, this was tossed around a lot in the beginning; at one point I was going to let people pick their own numbers and then I would engrave them.
Unfortunately that doesn't really leave me with a record of each case sold. If one blows up down the line I would like to know when it was made, in what batch, and to whom it was originally sold. This data simply helps with quality control.
So I have my own serial numbering scheme which will go on the cases.
08-30-2017, 08:49 PM
#64
Banned
Thread Starter
August 30th Update
Although significant time (and money) was spent to create what is probably the world's most complete solidworks model of a Mezger engine case, that is simply not good enough to machine off of without triple checking everything.
Sure, the scan was to 50 microns, but we need to be sure....SURE...that the dimensions are perfect before we start destroying perfectly good castings.
To that end, The Machinist is diligently confirming every single last little dimension on the model to the factory 3.6 case. It begins with a perfectly flat slab of granite with which to measure from; from there, reliable and repeatable baseline dimensions are pulled of the case and double checked with the model.
We also use conventional 2D drawings to make our notes on, and these are printed 1:1 scale so we can set the case right on top of them and jot down everything we find to be of importance.
The whole point here, just as with the tooling, is to come up with a prototype case that is very close to where we want to be. I'm not going to exaggerate and tell you it will be perfect from the get go, but all of these steps help to ensure that we have an accurate case pretty much from the start. Nothing is left to chance. Nothing is assumed just because it has been scanned at 50 microns beforehand.
That is not the way we roll here....
First CNC machining pass will happen in the first week of October.
Sure, the scan was to 50 microns, but we need to be sure....SURE...that the dimensions are perfect before we start destroying perfectly good castings.
To that end, The Machinist is diligently confirming every single last little dimension on the model to the factory 3.6 case. It begins with a perfectly flat slab of granite with which to measure from; from there, reliable and repeatable baseline dimensions are pulled of the case and double checked with the model.
We also use conventional 2D drawings to make our notes on, and these are printed 1:1 scale so we can set the case right on top of them and jot down everything we find to be of importance.
The whole point here, just as with the tooling, is to come up with a prototype case that is very close to where we want to be. I'm not going to exaggerate and tell you it will be perfect from the get go, but all of these steps help to ensure that we have an accurate case pretty much from the start. Nothing is left to chance. Nothing is assumed just because it has been scanned at 50 microns beforehand.
That is not the way we roll here....
First CNC machining pass will happen in the first week of October.
08-31-2017, 08:31 AM
#65
Rennlist Member
Although significant time (and money) was spent to create what is probably the world's most complete solidworks model of a Mezger engine case, that is simply not good enough to machine off of without triple checking everything.
Sure, the scan was to 50 microns, but we need to be sure....SURE...that the dimensions are perfect before we start destroying perfectly good castings.
To that end, The Machinist is diligently confirming every single last little dimension on the model to the factory 3.6 case. It begins with a perfectly flat slab of granite with which to measure from; from there, reliable and repeatable baseline dimensions are pulled of the case and double checked with the model.
We also use conventional 2D drawings to make our notes on, and these are printed 1:1 scale so we can set the case right on top of them and jot down everything we find to be of importance.
The whole point here, just as with the tooling, is to come up with a prototype case that is very close to where we want to be. I'm not going to exaggerate and tell you it will be perfect from the get go, but all of these steps help to ensure that we have an accurate case pretty much from the start. Nothing is left to chance. Nothing is assumed just because it has been scanned at 50 microns beforehand.
That is not the way we roll here....
First CNC machining pass will happen in the first week of October.
Sure, the scan was to 50 microns, but we need to be sure....SURE...that the dimensions are perfect before we start destroying perfectly good castings.
To that end, The Machinist is diligently confirming every single last little dimension on the model to the factory 3.6 case. It begins with a perfectly flat slab of granite with which to measure from; from there, reliable and repeatable baseline dimensions are pulled of the case and double checked with the model.
We also use conventional 2D drawings to make our notes on, and these are printed 1:1 scale so we can set the case right on top of them and jot down everything we find to be of importance.
The whole point here, just as with the tooling, is to come up with a prototype case that is very close to where we want to be. I'm not going to exaggerate and tell you it will be perfect from the get go, but all of these steps help to ensure that we have an accurate case pretty much from the start. Nothing is left to chance. Nothing is assumed just because it has been scanned at 50 microns beforehand.
That is not the way we roll here....
First CNC machining pass will happen in the first week of October.
I do miss it. Best luck with the finished product.
08-31-2017, 01:05 PM
#66
Banned
Thread Starter
09-11-2017, 12:47 PM
#69
Banned
Thread Starter
Amber,
That's a Manx Flag, the symbol for the Isle of Man. Mine is copied from the only other such flag in the world, the Sicilian Trinacria.
Basically my logo is an adaptation of what is on the Sicilian flag, where my family comes from. Taormina is very close to the ancestral home of my family.
People don't really know why Isle of Man and Sicily both have similar flags (the 3 running legs), although Sicily's is older. You hardly EVER see the Manx Flag or the Trinacria outside of their respective countries!
Good find bro!
That's a Manx Flag, the symbol for the Isle of Man. Mine is copied from the only other such flag in the world, the Sicilian Trinacria.
Basically my logo is an adaptation of what is on the Sicilian flag, where my family comes from. Taormina is very close to the ancestral home of my family.
People don't really know why Isle of Man and Sicily both have similar flags (the 3 running legs), although Sicily's is older. You hardly EVER see the Manx Flag or the Trinacria outside of their respective countries!
Good find bro!
09-29-2017, 10:56 PM
#70
Banned
Thread Starter
Once again all of our hard work has paid off in the form of what is arguably the most accurate model of a flat 6 engine case out there. Recall that we started with a 50 micron scan of an actual Porsche case. From there, we developed a Solidworks model. But just having the model in Solidworks doesn't really finish the job.
From there, we needed to take the original model and make a model suitable for creating a casting. A casting has draft, extra material, and all sorts of features that you won't see on a finished case.
Of course, the casting model is of little use to the machinist, who has to create his own model that will be used to guide the tool path of the CNC machine which will remove all the metal that was added in the casting process. And in the end, it's the machinist's model that needs to be the most accurate, since there is essentially zero room for error.
It took us over 6 weeks to measure every last hole, nook and cranny on the case by hand and then compare it to the computer model to ensure accuracy. From there, a SurfCAM model was developed which gives us our tool paths for each case half.
This is also much harder than it would appear. Each case needs machining on all sides, and then both halves are bolted together and machined again where they need it, as well as line bored. This was an incredibly laborious process but I felt that being accurate was more important than being first to market.
So thanks again for your patience.
From here, we are constructing the fixtures that will hold the case down for the various machining operations and text machine the first case halves. Tentative schedule is as follows:
November 1: both case halves machined on all sides. Create fixtures for gun drilling and line boring.
December 1: Produce a right and left case half capable of being built into a motor.
January 1, 2018: First Engine complete and operational.
Beta testing and customer deliveries to follow. The picture you are seeing below is of the SurfCAM machining model.
From there, we needed to take the original model and make a model suitable for creating a casting. A casting has draft, extra material, and all sorts of features that you won't see on a finished case.
Of course, the casting model is of little use to the machinist, who has to create his own model that will be used to guide the tool path of the CNC machine which will remove all the metal that was added in the casting process. And in the end, it's the machinist's model that needs to be the most accurate, since there is essentially zero room for error.
It took us over 6 weeks to measure every last hole, nook and cranny on the case by hand and then compare it to the computer model to ensure accuracy. From there, a SurfCAM model was developed which gives us our tool paths for each case half.
This is also much harder than it would appear. Each case needs machining on all sides, and then both halves are bolted together and machined again where they need it, as well as line bored. This was an incredibly laborious process but I felt that being accurate was more important than being first to market.
So thanks again for your patience.
From here, we are constructing the fixtures that will hold the case down for the various machining operations and text machine the first case halves. Tentative schedule is as follows:
November 1: both case halves machined on all sides. Create fixtures for gun drilling and line boring.
December 1: Produce a right and left case half capable of being built into a motor.
January 1, 2018: First Engine complete and operational.
Beta testing and customer deliveries to follow. The picture you are seeing below is of the SurfCAM machining model.
09-29-2017, 11:42 PM
#71
09-30-2017, 12:19 AM
#72
Banned
Thread Starter
^yeah, pretty much, LOL. Safe to say that it is a much more difficult than I envisioned it would be.
You can't really scan a part this complex and then just make it like in a Star Trek Replicator, LOL
You can't really scan a part this complex and then just make it like in a Star Trek Replicator, LOL
09-30-2017, 12:25 AM
#73
Drifting
I was mesmerized by the first couple of pages of this thread, so skipped to the last to ask this question (forgive me):
Obviously your market would be more street car oriented, but I wonder if you may eventually have a glorious solution to the 4.0L GT3-R/RSR cases that seem to have such a short life span in racing conditions? Even the 3.8L for that matter...
*4.0 crate motor someone mentioned; especially for motorsports...sold - take my money. Please.
Obviously your market would be more street car oriented, but I wonder if you may eventually have a glorious solution to the 4.0L GT3-R/RSR cases that seem to have such a short life span in racing conditions? Even the 3.8L for that matter...
*4.0 crate motor someone mentioned; especially for motorsports...sold - take my money. Please.
09-30-2017, 12:37 AM
#74
Banned
Thread Starter
I was mesmerized by the first couple of pages of this thread, so skipped to the last to ask this question (forgive me):
Obviously your market would be more street car oriented, but I wonder if you may eventually have a glorious solution to the 4.0L GT3-R/RSR cases that seem to have such a short life span in racing conditions? Even the 3.8L for that matter...
*4.0 crate motor someone mentioned; especially for motorsports...sold - take my money. Please.
Obviously your market would be more street car oriented, but I wonder if you may eventually have a glorious solution to the 4.0L GT3-R/RSR cases that seem to have such a short life span in racing conditions? Even the 3.8L for that matter...
*4.0 crate motor someone mentioned; especially for motorsports...sold - take my money. Please.
First of all thanks for the interest!
I think the only way to really prove the ultimate durability of this test is to subject it to motorsports testing. I am listening to the racing guy because many of the issues that racers have are ones that I have personally experienced myself during rebuilds.
To that end, my cases have:
- rebuildable piston squirters
- AN thread plugs on all oil galleries
- a case separation system for easy case parting
These features alone make it super easy to rebuild the cases when they need it to a much higher degree than a factory case.
Interestingly, the first motor will be a 4.0 and go in my 73 RS clone.
4.0 is easy: 109mm cylinder spigots, 80.4mm stroke on a custom crank (like a GT3RS 4.0 crank for example).
You will be happy to know that my cases are substantially stronger than factory cases. Not only am I using better material (A356 T6 aircraft grade aluminum), my cases have more meat on them due to sand casting vs die casting and are thus stronger.
Just this week we are hardness testing them and comparing them to factory cases. I can't release the results right now, but I will very soon. You will be happy.
...oh, and they will be very, very hard to break!
