fibredog

After driving my cars at “my” limits on a track for several hours, I am elated, but pretty exhausted. It’s a pleasure to be able to take the same car out on a winding mountain road at moderate speeds to enjoy it in a relaxed environment. I feel that the 4RS/SRS sound so good, you don’t have to push them hard to enjoy them.

VVG

We are all different, aren't we. I never once have looked at my time on track. Ever. I just go out there, and drive the best I can. I subjectively gauge how I am driving, what I am doing, and how it feels. Although I do get a kick at the end of the session to look at my G-force meter.....holy crap !! This is because I know I am nowhere close to being a world class driver, so what is the point in timing myself? So what if I can achieve a slightly faster lap time? What is the end point? What is the purpose? For me, knowing that I felt like I drove the best I could is what matters. Now.....if you are someone who is young, and shows promise to be a world class racer, then, by all means, go at it in every possible way.

Manifold

I rarely time myself on track, just now and then to see what the time is. I can generally tell how well I’m driving by feel and by looking at the speedometer at a few checkpoints on track.

ldamelio

I'm under no delusions during track days but I (like most people in the upper run groups) do chase improved lap times. I always have goals and want to learn new things (even at 64). I aim to get into the red run group and become an instructor.

Lap times (along with other data) give me objective measures of progress. It's great that some of you enjoy track driving by feel alone. But there's no reason to be pejorative about someone who takes an activity seriously. I have no problem with the perma-greens who do a couple of track days a year. They (and non-track people) shouldn't have any problem those who pursue it more seriously. That's true of any human endeavor.

Regarding the original question, I'm one of those people who have realized that the concept of performance driving on the street is lame. I still enjoy relaxing drives to nowhere on back roads but don't bother hustling the car during these. You can't drive over 3/10 of the car's capabilities on public roads. The track mods (seat, harnesses, half cage, coilovers) make my 718 less than comfortable for my wife in the passenger seat. I'm in the market for a luxe spec base 911 for enjoyment on public roads.

When I see the term "spirited driving', I immediately know that the user doesn't really get it. These are the same folks who describe a fine wine or whiskey as 'smooth'. These are the buzz words of dabblers with peripheral knowledge. Most 'spirited drivers" wouldn't know an apex from their a**hole.

KelvinC

+1000 for me.

One hobby I liken track driving to is indoor rock climbing. Climbing routes are usually assigned a difficulty level. For recreational climbers, having an objective measure to work from or work towards brings a goal-oriented aspect to the hobby that some find enjoyable.

Not everyone cares to quantify their skill level or bring personal goal setting to their hobbies. There’s nothing wrong with that. But some do, and it shouldn’t be too hard to understand why some would feel a sense of joy when hitting a personal best time they’ve been working towards.

UncleDude

I don’t equate recording lap times with chasing every last tenth of a second. It is a very technical exercise, no matter how fast you go, and having some basic data adds to the enjoyment for many, including myself.

VVG

You have a goal to become an instructor. To then teach others how to be able to push their driving skills on track. Okay. And for that there may be certain requirements and standards that you need to meet.

For someone who doesn't have a tangible goal, however, why does it matter? And if that goal is some random time on a local track, why does that give someone a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment? Lap times are an objective measure of "progress", but progress for what end goal? Again, I am speaking to the garden variety "track person", not someone who shows promise from age 16 to be a world class driver.

I am going on in this discussion just to really understand. I know we are all just wired differently. Hope nobody takes any offense and people find it to just be a lively discussion !!

PTSFX

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that you have to time your laps. As you said, we are all different, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with going out and enjoying the feeling of getting better.

But there are plenty of reasons that people do time their laps, even if they don’t fall into the category of someone who is young that shows promise to be a world class racer. It’s not a black and white thing where you are either just out there for fun or on a path to becoming a professional.

You asked what’s the purpose. Some may be doing time trials, some may simply want the satisfaction of knowing they are getting better - and by how much, some may like to compare data with other people that have a similar car to see if they can learn how to get faster if that is a personal goal for them.

Millions of people play recreational golf and the majority of them keep score, even though they have no chance of making the PGA tour. The majority of them can tell if they had a good day on the course and if they are getting better without keeping score, but it’s a good measure of how you compare to others and tracking your handicap is the best way to know how much better, if that’s important to them. Doesn’t have to be, but it also makes sense if it is.

PTSFX

I would assume that anyone that goes through the effort of timing their laps does have a tangible goal, and presumably that goal is to get better.

DrainsWalletsFast

Even if you're not trying to see where you measure up with your buddies I think people want to see times if they want to work in improving their skills. You should really only just try to beat yourself if anyone. But if you want to get better, and you're going to need some data to see what the hell you're doing.

ldamelio

No offense taken and it's a good discussion. You hit the nail on the head. We're all wired differently. Also, our wiring and priorities change over time. With age, I'm generally less competitive and intense. I was exceedingly so as a young man based on a combination of nature and nurture.

I used to be a competitive cyclist but no longer have the desire or self-discipline to continue those high standards and race. Now I'm happy just enjoying a nice bike ride for health and camaraderie.
With the car, I'm pretty sure that W2W racing would take the fun out of it for me like bike racing eventually did. But I still have enough fire to want to 'compete' against myself and improve in HPDE and lap times. This might fade in a couple of years, but for now I'm all in.

Manifold

Nothing wrong with timing laps, but if one becomes obsessive about the lap time as a non-racing driver, they may be missing the opportunity to smell the roses.

Moreover, lap time alone isn't entirely a sufficient metric for driving performance, since lap time is affected by factors like tires and track conditions. You could be driving better yet have a slower lap time, or vice versa, because of these factors.

38D

I think the point of timing laps is to be able to compare against a standards that applies from amateur to pro. If you just drive around, you might think you’re doing well. Put a lap timer in the car and you can see if you’re 1, 5 or 10 seconds off the pace for the same car on the same track. Mostly DEs I’ve done, the median instructor is ~8 seconds slower than a good club racer. The average club racer is ~4 secs off a pro. And there’s even a difference from a Porsche factory pro like Estre to a an IMSA level pro. Times helps show these deltas and give you not only a goal, but appreciation for how otherworldly fast real pro drivers are.

ScottsGT3RS

At some point as a driver you hit a point that your rear end cant feel the improvement any more. Drivers have to use data tools like a Garmin to evaluate where they are leaving tenths on the table. For some that is fun. For others they are fine staying at the rear end feel level.

Manifold

It’s not really about rear end feel, it’s about feeling lateral and longitudinal g forces.