EVO Review of 718 Base Boxster
06-09-2016, 02:21 PM
#31
Three Wheelin'
Imagine the excitement if it had been a four cylinder all these years and was finally being released as a sweet sounding six. Maybe skip the sport exhaust, get the Burmeseter and pat yourself on the back for saving the planet.
06-10-2016, 11:55 AM
#32
Race Car
Imagine if like BMW in Europe, they downsized their sixes to fours, and now had plans for a 3 cylinder engine for the 3-er. That's exactly what BMW is planning. Which will give "3 series" a whole new meaning...
06-10-2016, 12:08 PM
#33
Rarely have I read an article that is such hot air baloney from a car mag but this appears to be a trend with Excellence. If it were not for the inaccuracies I would think Porsche wrote the article for them because it reads like non stop advertising hype. Clearly, they know who butters their bread.
Frankly to me, it is insulting as it is inaccurate.
First, Porsche's 0-60 rating for the 981 Spyder is 4.3 and for the 718S MT it is 4.4 for the 718S with pdk it is 4.2 and 4.0 with SC.
Second, the exhaust note of the 4 banger turbo is like the Spyder's. If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.
Third, the only Ring times I've seen for the 718S are with the pdk SC option so again comparing it with an MT car is nothing if not disingenuous. Particularly when this important fact was left out. Let's see how the ring time of the 718S MT compares to the Spyder.
It's refreshing to see at least magazines like EVO have some journalistic integrity left. Hopefully Porsche doesn't pull too many of their adverts.
And as far as Spyder like performance at a cut rate price is concerned, you can buy a C7 Z06 and get GT3 performance at an even bigger discount.
Let's see in 10 years which car is more desirable. The four banger turbo with the Porsche buildboard sticking out the trunk or one of the most beautiful looking convertibles to come out of Zuffenhausen with that glorious sounding NA 3.8 flat 6 engine whirring behind the seats.
Btw, never mind coming away with thinking they got Spdyer performance for a 20% discount, they basically got Carrera S Cab performance at an even greater discount. Funny Excellence didn't mention the fact that the performance numbers from the two cars 991S cab and 981S are nearly identical. And For the first time a Boxster S clearly out performs the base Carrera Cab. I guess that wasn't in Porsche's talking points.
Frankly to me, it is insulting as it is inaccurate.
First, Porsche's 0-60 rating for the 981 Spyder is 4.3 and for the 718S MT it is 4.4 for the 718S with pdk it is 4.2 and 4.0 with SC.
Second, the exhaust note of the 4 banger turbo is like the Spyder's. If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.
Third, the only Ring times I've seen for the 718S are with the pdk SC option so again comparing it with an MT car is nothing if not disingenuous. Particularly when this important fact was left out. Let's see how the ring time of the 718S MT compares to the Spyder.
It's refreshing to see at least magazines like EVO have some journalistic integrity left. Hopefully Porsche doesn't pull too many of their adverts.
And as far as Spyder like performance at a cut rate price is concerned, you can buy a C7 Z06 and get GT3 performance at an even bigger discount.
Let's see in 10 years which car is more desirable. The four banger turbo with the Porsche buildboard sticking out the trunk or one of the most beautiful looking convertibles to come out of Zuffenhausen with that glorious sounding NA 3.8 flat 6 engine whirring behind the seats.
Btw, never mind coming away with thinking they got Spdyer performance for a 20% discount, they basically got Carrera S Cab performance at an even greater discount. Funny Excellence didn't mention the fact that the performance numbers from the two cars 991S cab and 981S are nearly identical. And For the first time a Boxster S clearly out performs the base Carrera Cab. I guess that wasn't in Porsche's talking points.
06-10-2016, 01:46 PM
#34
You do have to admit it's cute:
06-13-2016, 10:25 AM
#35
Race Car
BMW will gladly sell you a 3cyl (B38 1.5L from the Mini Cooper) 3 series in Europe today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_3_Series_(F30/F31)
You do have to admit it's cute:
You do have to admit it's cute:
05-30-2017, 04:16 PM
#36
All very interesting.
I traded a 2012 997.2S Cab for a new 2016 2.7 Cayman Black Edition late last year and reading all of this just confirms me suspicions at the time. Enthusiast car buyers are not going to have much interest in 4 cylinder Porsche sports cars. Particularly those who have had the pleasure of owning NA Porsche sports cars, of which I've owned 4. I figured a steeply discounted 981 would depreciate at a slower rated than what has been typical due to the enthusiast market preference for the flat 6 motors Porsche has become famous for.
For what its worth, sound does matter in a sports car. A base Cayman with PSE sounds substantially better than the Carrera S with a Fister exhaust and Sharkwerks center pipes. No contest.
For what its worth, sound does matter in a sports car. A base Cayman with PSE sounds substantially better than the Carrera S with a Fister exhaust and Sharkwerks center pipes. No contest.
05-30-2017, 08:24 PM
#37
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Rennlist do it please!
05-31-2017, 07:57 AM
#38
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Well all "butthurt" 981 owner tripe aside, it seems the proof is in the pudding...718 Boxster and Cayman sales numbers. The cars are simply priced too high. I know the 718 defenders will say, "if you spec out a 718 to a a comparable 981 they are the same." That may be true if you spec your cars. The cars I see on the lot at the dealer formerly known as Brumos are priced out of this world. For a turbo-four.
Porsche should have LOWERED the price from 981 to 718, this despite objective numerical improvement. At least then 718 apologists could have argued the value proposition.
Anyone comparing a 981 Spyder to any 718 gen car is on the pipe.
Porsche should have LOWERED the price from 981 to 718, this despite objective numerical improvement. At least then 718 apologists could have argued the value proposition.
Anyone comparing a 981 Spyder to any 718 gen car is on the pipe.
06-06-2017, 12:33 PM
#40
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718S Hock short Boxster 718S 1:11.0........... 981 Spyder...........1:11.3 ooopsor how about this Vs GT4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F4y...AC5D656286E89B
so many pipes so little time
A whopping 3/10ths faster than a manual Spyder with turbo-charged torque and PDK. Yes, you got me there "whoops" indeed. The 718 is heavier than the generation it replaces and makes up for it with turbo torque. It is empirically faster; fractionally. You'd STILL have to be on the pipe, HARD, to choose a 718 anything over a GT4 or Spyder. Indeed, all things being equal, I cannot envision a Porschephile taking a 718 over either a GT4 or Spyder if given the choice...unless, that is, you were on the pipe.
Enjoy some more of that good-good.
06-06-2017, 06:13 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Randr congrats! You have found videos proving the 718 is marginally faster! Yay! I can see how a PDK-equipped 781 Boxster S would be comparable to a N/A Spyder, an awesome sounding, manual, 911S flat six motored, 981 with gorgeous looks. You must indeed have so many pipes and time is certainly at a premium as you are using them liberally.
A whopping 3/10ths faster than a manual Spyder with turbo-charged torque and PDK. Yes, you got me there "whoops" indeed. The 718 is heavier than the generation it replaces and makes up for it with turbo torque. It is empirically faster; fractionally. You'd STILL have to be on the pipe, HARD, to choose a 718 anything over a GT4 or Spyder. Indeed, all things being equal, I cannot envision a Porschephile taking a 718 over either a GT4 or Spyder if given the choice...unless, that is, you were on the pipe.
Enjoy some more of that good-good.
A whopping 3/10ths faster than a manual Spyder with turbo-charged torque and PDK. Yes, you got me there "whoops" indeed. The 718 is heavier than the generation it replaces and makes up for it with turbo torque. It is empirically faster; fractionally. You'd STILL have to be on the pipe, HARD, to choose a 718 anything over a GT4 or Spyder. Indeed, all things being equal, I cannot envision a Porschephile taking a 718 over either a GT4 or Spyder if given the choice...unless, that is, you were on the pipe.
Enjoy some more of that good-good.
06-07-2017, 02:58 AM
#42
Randr congrats! You have found videos proving the 718 is marginally faster! Yay! I can see how a PDK-equipped 781 Boxster S would be comparable to a N/A Spyder, an awesome sounding, manual, 911S flat six motored, 981 with gorgeous looks. You must indeed have so many pipes and time is certainly at a premium as you are using them liberally.
A whopping 3/10ths faster than a manual Spyder with turbo-charged torque and PDK. Yes, you got me there "whoops" indeed. The 718 is heavier than the generation it replaces and makes up for it with turbo torque. It is empirically faster; fractionally. You'd STILL have to be on the pipe, HARD, to choose a 718 anything over a GT4 or Spyder. Indeed, all things being equal, I cannot envision a Porschephile taking a 718 over either a GT4 or Spyder if given the choice...unless, that is, you were on the pipe.
Enjoy some more of that good-good.
A whopping 3/10ths faster than a manual Spyder with turbo-charged torque and PDK. Yes, you got me there "whoops" indeed. The 718 is heavier than the generation it replaces and makes up for it with turbo torque. It is empirically faster; fractionally. You'd STILL have to be on the pipe, HARD, to choose a 718 anything over a GT4 or Spyder. Indeed, all things being equal, I cannot envision a Porschephile taking a 718 over either a GT4 or Spyder if given the choice...unless, that is, you were on the pipe.
Enjoy some more of that good-good.
By the way the 718 and in particular the 718S is a really sweet drive - I say this from experience, not only is it quick, its responsive and handles like its on rails - In fact it handles on par with the GT4 and thats without MPSC2 - thats why its so quick. So why don't you open your mind and and try not to rain on other peoples enjoyment of their well earned cars.
I guess these people mustn't be "Porschephiles" by your apparent definition, but then again they're probably out driving their cars and not sitting in a circle with their "Porschephile" mates looking at a pile of nice soggy biscuits
.
Last edited by randr; 06-07-2017 at 03:53 AM.
06-07-2017, 07:21 AM
#43
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As a 718 BS owner, I agree with both RNGRJAG and randr. Quite frankly, if I could have purchased a new Boxster Spyder, I would have likely done so - both the GT4 and the Boxster Spyder are amazing cars. I simply refuse to pay $110+K for someone's used (and possible abused) vehicle. OTOH, the 718BS I own is a very fine Porsche, and I compare it very favorably to the many Porsches I have owned in the past. In fact, I find the 718BS to be more fun as a street ride than my 991 Turbo S.
I don't think there has been a car that has been more polarizing than the 718. The British press has been very tough on the car, largely because of the sound; but it was voted the 2017 World Performance Car winner and many journalists have highly praised the car. I prefer my 718BS to the 981 CGTS that I got rid of simply because the very usable torque curve of the 718 is more important to me for street driving than the flat 6 wail. To get decent power delivery (and the "wail") on the CGTS required 4500 RPM and I just have no interest in driving around at 5000 RPM on the street. In fact, I felt kind of douchey driving a low power car that sounds like a high powered car. The sound of the 718 is OK to me and the steering, handling, braking, acceleration are a step above the CGTS. There is no sense of turbo lag in my manual transmission equipped 718.
I also agree with randr in that it is pretty douchey to rain on other people's enjoyment.
BTW, according to current 2017 sales figures for every 911 and 718 that is sold in the U.S., there are three Macan, Pannys and Cayene's sold. The 911 will survive forever; the Boxster/Cayman, not so sure as far as the U.S. is concerned - they may have served their purpose since the Macan occupies the same price point (and is frequently sold as the "4 seat Cayman" to the unsuspecting). Furthermore the 781 finds itself with alot of good competition that the 98x cars didn't have to face and, at least in the U.S., the <$100K sports car market opportunity is shrinking - a victim of the crossover SUVs. What a loss, if that becomes fact.
I don't think there has been a car that has been more polarizing than the 718. The British press has been very tough on the car, largely because of the sound; but it was voted the 2017 World Performance Car winner and many journalists have highly praised the car. I prefer my 718BS to the 981 CGTS that I got rid of simply because the very usable torque curve of the 718 is more important to me for street driving than the flat 6 wail. To get decent power delivery (and the "wail") on the CGTS required 4500 RPM and I just have no interest in driving around at 5000 RPM on the street. In fact, I felt kind of douchey driving a low power car that sounds like a high powered car. The sound of the 718 is OK to me and the steering, handling, braking, acceleration are a step above the CGTS. There is no sense of turbo lag in my manual transmission equipped 718.
I also agree with randr in that it is pretty douchey to rain on other people's enjoyment.
BTW, according to current 2017 sales figures for every 911 and 718 that is sold in the U.S., there are three Macan, Pannys and Cayene's sold. The 911 will survive forever; the Boxster/Cayman, not so sure as far as the U.S. is concerned - they may have served their purpose since the Macan occupies the same price point (and is frequently sold as the "4 seat Cayman" to the unsuspecting). Furthermore the 781 finds itself with alot of good competition that the 98x cars didn't have to face and, at least in the U.S., the <$100K sports car market opportunity is shrinking - a victim of the crossover SUVs. What a loss, if that becomes fact.
06-07-2017, 07:33 AM
#44
^^^^ Fine words, I'll be totally honest - I was fairly ambivalent towards the 718S.........and then in Sept (2016) I had one for three days.
I was blown away with how good it was, in fact, round track, I put 3 seconds on an M2 (which I also generated the time for). As a daily it was great for many of the reasons you suggested above.
The Spyder and GT4 are also fine cars but represent a snapshot in time of 981 evolution. Unfortunately time moves on.....for us all.
(for reference I currently own a 981 GTS and a 991.2 S with RAS PTV-E etc).
In terms of the British "journalists" they write to a script where NA = good, turbo = bad and manual = good and PDK = bad.
The problem for British motoring journos is that their American cousins started putting cars through a range of tests..........
I was blown away with how good it was, in fact, round track, I put 3 seconds on an M2 (which I also generated the time for). As a daily it was great for many of the reasons you suggested above.
The Spyder and GT4 are also fine cars but represent a snapshot in time of 981 evolution. Unfortunately time moves on.....for us all.
(for reference I currently own a 981 GTS and a 991.2 S with RAS PTV-E etc).
In terms of the British "journalists" they write to a script where NA = good, turbo = bad and manual = good and PDK = bad.
The problem for British motoring journos is that their American cousins started putting cars through a range of tests..........
06-07-2017, 07:40 AM
#45
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I guess it just goes to show that "Porsche" and "douche" are alive and well - enjoy your Spyder and get over the butt hurt. Each new generation of Porsche is always sharper than the one it replaces. Get used to it - thats how Porsche rolls.
By the way the 718 and in particular the 718S is a really sweet drive - I say this from experience, not only is it quick, its responsive and handles like its on rails - In fact it handles on par with the GT4 and thats without MPSC2 - thats why its so quick. So why don't you open your mind and and try not to rain on other peoples enjoyment of their well earned cars.
I guess these people mustn't be "Porschephiles" by your apparent definition, but then again they're probably out driving their cars and not sitting in a circle with their "Porschephile" mates looking at a pile of nice soggy biscuits .
By the way the 718 and in particular the 718S is a really sweet drive - I say this from experience, not only is it quick, its responsive and handles like its on rails - In fact it handles on par with the GT4 and thats without MPSC2 - thats why its so quick. So why don't you open your mind and and try not to rain on other peoples enjoyment of their well earned cars.
I guess these people mustn't be "Porschephiles" by your apparent definition, but then again they're probably out driving their cars and not sitting in a circle with their "Porschephile" mates looking at a pile of nice soggy biscuits
.I find it amusing that this post was originally about a poor review of a base Boxster, yet somehow it morphed into a "as good as a Spyder," in particular the "S." I'm not trying to "rain on other peoples enjoyment of their well earned cars." I just think they are delusional if they think any 718 is at all akin to a 981 Spyder. That's called an opinion.
Yes, I'm butthurt. Right. I am so concerned with the "improvements" of the 718 that I'm gonna run right out and buy one. That's kinda the important metric sweetheart. Take rate. I take it from your comments that you own neither a Spyder nor a 718 of any stripe. You've driven the 718? Congratulations, an expert you have become. You do realize that there are many, many modern Porsches that are objectively faster and "better" performers that are not nearly as cherished as their older, slower counterparts right?
How about a little wager, mate? Take a deep breath and draw deep on one of your pipes. Stagger on into a Porsche dealer, y'know, where the douchaaaas are. Spend $100K (US) of your own money on a 718 Boxster S, or about $1.6 million AUS, or whatever cars cost down under. Try to sell your 718 car in a year, three years, five years, whatever...let's see who's "butthurt." (Hint: Priced a Spyder lately?)
The 718 is not selling well, nor will it. Early adopters already bought one. Douchaaas like me won't buy one. Pretty interesting that people, Porschephile douchbags presumably, are already losing their minds over the prospect of a manual, normally aspirated GT3. In other words mate, let me connect the dots for you in case you miss the point..."objective" metrics are only part of the equation in a passion purchase. I truly couldn't give less of a **** about the 718. I don't even believe it should be in the same forum as the N/A cars.
I am a Porschephile because I like and support the brand. Older Porschephile douchaaas like me weren't happy when 911s went to liquid cooling (albeit a necessary evil). Douchaaas like me weren't happy with the egg-yolk 911s. How have air cooled 911s fared in terms of value? How well have those egg yolk cars fared in terms of value? When they were released they were objectively faster than the models they replaced, they were just ugly. Guess what, they are just as ugly today, resale values suck and Porsche listened to the douchaaaas and fixed the headlights going forward. Maybe you fail to see the correlation between contemporaneous desirability (when the car is initially released) amongst people who value these cars and their future values. The 718s will suffer the same fate--unloved in the future. They are a misstep by Porsche. I don't care if that offends you or anyone else. It's an opinion mate.
Now, this thing about soggy biscuits....don't even know where to begin...