ldamelio

MidEngineRules - can you elaborate on the base 991.2 Carrera being a little too sedate? I'm intrigued by the Carrera T and at some point want a 'driver's' late model 911. My local dealer currently has a "T-like" 991.2 base demo (< 500 miles) on the lot at a good price. It's optioned well for what I want (manual, PSE, chalk, satin black Carrera S wheels). It has a sunroof that I wouldn't have ordered, but otherwise it's a base driver's Carrera. Some of the features of a 'true' T strike me as affectations (plastic rear window and the straps for door handles) and I'm not sure that I would get LWBs for a daily driver/weekend canyon cruiser. I currently have a 2018 Cayman S PDK that I love and I know that a manual base 991.2 will be same to lesser performance on paper, so I'm ambivalent about the potential switch. I was originally going to wait a year or so for a 992S manual, but this 991.2 would scratch my itch sooner and cheaper. However, I DON'T want 'sedate.' Thus, I'd be interested in your experience.

CaymanSinAR

In terms of performance options these are what you would be missing on the base Carrera vs the T.

mLSD (manual only)
Shorter gearing (manual only)
Short shifter (manual only)
SPASM
(optional) Rear axle steering
(optional) PCCBs

I loved the 991.2 Carrera so much I bought one as my daily driver. That being said, if you want a manual 991.2 Carrera I'd opt for the T if you can find one in the spec you like. The standard features and options the T opens up are all worth it from a driver's perspective.

That being said, I don't think you would be disappointed in a regular manual Carrera. It's still a great car for public roads.

MidEngineRules

What makes you think a Cayman S PDK would be quicker than a 991.2 T PDK? The motor is more powerful in the T, with virtually no turbo lag comparatively, and the car isn't much heavier, but the chassis of the Carrera T is world's better for grip and traction. Plus you can gain incredible power with the turbo 6 with tunes. Much more so than the turbo 4. The problem with PDK cars is they are programmed to change gears very early. When driven in automatic, they feel very underpowered. But the rush of the turbo 6 is much more immediate than your Cayman, and the car feels more poised in any driving situation. The Carrera T might be the best driving Porsche in recent years. Plus the option list was unique compared to other Carreras and Caymans. The fact you could get LWBs is something no turbo 4 could have. It's a more impressive car at every aspect as it should be considering the price difference. If I wanted PDK (again) I'd have that yellow T sitting in my garage. $98k for new Carrera T is Cayman money, so it's a no brainer unless you just want a 718 Cayman which I can't imagine why especially with the car's lack of popularity except among owners.

ldamelio

Jeez, I politely asked a deferential question as someone debating between keeping my 718CS and buying a low option base 991.2 (not a T) and got an earful, not all of which is accurate. You can get LWBs on a 718GTS these days. It's also well-documented that 0 - 60 times and lap times of a 718CS PDK and manual base991.2 are close; I was never commenting on the T's performance. Then you s**t on the 718 in general. Tiresome (especially on a 718 forum) and not helpful.

Thanks to CaymanSinAR for actually answering my question pointing out the differences in gearing, SPASM, etc. between T and base 991.2

MidEngineRules

You're welcome

trayvon

i don’t know.

my gut tells me that if a GTS is out of your price range, whatever the new flat six “touring” is priced at will probably be out of your price range as well. if they priced that car similar to a 718 S, they’d be cannibalizing the already-low 718 sales.

i am also not sure if 718 prices will drop much simply due to a new flat six NA engine being available. we’ve known for a while that a GT4 and Spyder with the flax six are coming, and pre-owned 981 models satisfy the lower end of the market already with CPO examples available in the high 30s (albeit with limited options and higher mileage).

i would say you should decide what you really want and then go for it if you can afford it. life is short and im not sure if it’s worth maybe possibly saving a couple grand by buying in several months. if you want a flax six, get a 981. if you don’t care, get a 718. if you want a flat six AND you want it to be new... then wait for the GT4 Touring but expect to bite the bullet on price, I can almost assure you you’ll be paying nicely equipped 992 prices. i could be wrong though.. so “almost” serves as my disclaimer

michael818

It sounds reasonable that if a flat 6 either replaces the current GTS or slots in somewhere below the GT4 it will be priced higher than the T4 GTS. I don't think that the addition of a flat 6 will affect the current new car pricing of the 718 line. As to resale prices, who knows. My feel is that they will remain pretty much as is, I just don't see people dropping the cars simply because a 6 becomes available. Personally, I don't see taking the loss for little performance gain in my use as a DD.

k.alexander

@trayvon Thanks for your input. You're right, a new GTS is more than I want to spend, but I've seen some very low mileage CPO GTS cars that are within my budget. Really, however, I'm looking either at a new, very possibly new order, on a Cayman S, or alternatively a low mileage '17-1'8 CPO CS. I only want a manual, and with that, what I'm seeing however is that there are very few cars out there, either new/left-over '19s, or '17-18 CPO cars that are manual; and then of course you start figuring if you like the color combo, the options, etc. Is this a normal situation? Is it a reflection of 718's allegedly relatively poor sales in the US and thus PAG has been sending fewer cars here? Or is this a relatively normal situation, and I just have to keep looking for the right car? I'm no rush, I figured I'll give myself through the end of the year/holidays to find a "deal" on one, and if not then will have to decide whether to place an custom order for a new one for summer 2020 delivery or...just not do anything at all.

@michael818 : I'm looking for a DD car also. You mind sharing your experiences using the 718 as a DD? My current DD is a Nissan 370Z, I love it, but it is getting a little long in the tooth and I'm itching for something new, but while also trying to figure out if there is that much of an upgrade from one car to the other especially considering the cost outlay for the 718 (yes I know I'm on rennlist, I expect somewhat one sided answer to this question, that's fine, I think you guys in advance nonetheless )

worf928

Normal. Very few cars have three pedals. So too for Porsche (<20% IIRC.) Any Porsche. If you want manual and have a specific like or dislike option wise then you have to be patient.

This - the long list of options - is part of Porsche’s strategy: it’s hard to find exactly what you want on the lot when you've spent hours and hours on the configurator. Since Porsche People are picky, obstinate f%^&ers, that want what they want, they are drawn to buy new to get exactly what they want.

solts

So jumping into the party here a bit late but I can offer some feedback regarding the 718 as a DD. Coming out of an F80 M3, I shopped both the 981CS and 718CS. To me, the 981's H6 felt like a dog unless I drove the **** out of it. For a weekend car that's fine, but for a DD I much preferred the power delivery of the 718 with it's lower end torque, not to mention the nicer amenities and better styling IMO. For me the whole sound thing was a non issue. The 718 sounded better than my F80M3. The 981 sounded better than the 718 at WOT, but worse than my old tuned 997, which in turn was worse than my tuned e92M3, etc, so basically a non-factor for me.

Regarding the GTS, in the 718 trim it was out of my price range (<$65k). The 718CS I got basically had all the GTS options (PASM Sport, SC, PSE) without the GTS only bits (slightly larger turbos, xtra oil cooler) which you would really only need if you were doing multiple HPDE's on an annual basis. For something you plan on DDing and tracking maybe once a year, I think a CS is perfectly adequate. Right now I have snow tires slapped on it and it's doing perfectly fine. There's plenty of room with the two boots, and I really don't notice I'm in a two-seater much at all. I don't have any seat time in a Z, but I'd imagine a 718CS would be a noticeable improvement. As others have mentioned, the Porsche options list is interminable, so make a list of your "must haves" when you do your shopping - it might take several months for the right one to eventually pop-up.

michael818

I think that a 718 would be a major upgrade over a Z car. The mid engine configuration is much different from what you’re currently driving. The car is comfortable and has adequate room in the trunk and frunk to meet most needs. The electronics should be much advanced over the Z. You do need winter tires if you’re in the northeast, another fair expense. Yes the car is a large outlay of cash but it’s not something you can put a price on - you either want a Porsche or you don’t. The CS is probably more than adequate as a DD. I only went with the GTS because after optioning a CS, the price really wasn’t much different and I was ordering new. I previously drove a CPO 911 CS as a DD. Please feel free to PM me if you want to discuss further.

k.alexander

@worf928 and @solts
Thanks for your replies. I’m fine taking my time looking for the right one of these to buy, I’m really in no rush. I have a very good idea of exactly which options I want, there’s some flexibility there, so just a matter of finding the right car.

Those who have them, do the ventilated seats do anything? Only asking if I end up ordering a new one, never thought of the option but it’s pretty inexpensive and just curious. Also what the heck does the Light Design Package actually give you? I’ve got a good grasp of most other options I would consider.

Otherwise in theory I have some color combos in mind, Manual, CarPlay is a must but I know that can be added later if I find a CPO car without it, multi-functioning steering wheel--would be very nice, as is keyless entry & drive system (this stuff should really be standard, I mean it's was standard on my '09, base model Z), and maybe heated seats (flexible on the last few).

Also looking for PASM, possibly PTV, and Sports Chrono. Need to figure which of these three are things I want/need/must have/or can live without. This is probably my biggest challenge in optioning the car.

I assume now through end of year is the best time to shop for one of these. Do you think the shopping environment gets better or worse in early part of next year? I guess what I’m saying is when do I give up looking for a CPO or maybe a ‘18-‘19 leftover car and just bite the bullet on a new order?

CaymanSinAR

Ventilated seats are life in a Boxster. Would not own a convertible without them. Heat and humidity will kill you here. I couldn't drive my Miata in comfort past 83 degrees outside. The Boxster with ventilated seats? Triple digits temps with the top down are no problem.

My 911 (coupe) also has ventilated seats. They are very nice, and I definitely use them, but for a coupe I consider them a pretty high priority but I wouldn't pass on a car without them. So if you are getting a Cayman ventilated seats are a sweet bonus, but not an absolute necessity. Just my opinion, of course.

The light design package is accent lighting in the car. Storage, footwells, etc.

trayvon

It is not a reflection of poor 718 sales -- as other's have mentioned this is completely normal. You can look at popular models such as 991 cars that sold very well, and if you are looking for a manual with a specific color and set of options it is difficult to find exactly what you are looking for. Obviously, with the 718 not selling all that great, it's certainly not going to be any easier but even if the 718 sold better than the 981 you'd still have a hard time finding exactly what you want.

I've been looking at 981 cars and I want a base with PSE, SC, PDK, and premium w/ 14 way seats + seat ventilation. It's very very tough because most base 981 buyers did not opt for these features. But it's what I want so I'll wait.

CaymanSinAR

Spot on.

It took me 9 months to find a 981 GTS with the options I wanted.