Back to six cylinder?
 

Pure speculation or the revival of the 981?

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/p...ngine-gts/amp/

OMG, if this comes true it will be fantastic!!!

Finally a sign of what was seen at the Ring. Asked in the GT4 thread and zero responses......
Been waiting for more news and if true.... :cheers:

New exhaust tips location

Not a 4 cylinder

But with smallish S/GTS brakes...

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...2a311bc3e6.jpg

This makes perfect sense, since what we saw with the "Cayman T" test mules, didn't match up. The whole time they were just NA Caymans and Boxsters. I wonder what engine they will get and if they plan to replace the GTS or provide an all together new trim; I hope it's the latter. It would be cool to see Porsche release an entirely new trim level that features the flat six, both manual and PDK options, and some trickle down goodies from the GT4, for under $100K. Hopefully this will also allow the GT division to go all out with the new GT4 (RWS, 4.0ltr, front axle lift, etc.).

Will be interesting what this does to 718 and 981 depreciation. Good news for Cayman buyers...

In terms of 981 depreciation I suspect it will depend on the price point. If the new six starts at $90K I could see the 981s holding on pretty strong until the 718 sixes start to hit the used market.

This does make me feel better about selling my 981 CS. If I could get a 6 cylinder engine in a 718 and have it be comfortable off the track, that might just be worth holding on to.

In the long term (after we here are all gone), remember the 911 and 912? The 718 4-cylinder cars will be unappreciated until our great great grandchildren, who grew up in a world where having a driver's license is an expensive privilege, bid up all 6-cylinder models (be it NA or turbo) and the 4-cylinder becomes the relative inexpensive way to enter that old Porsche ICE world. Kind of like the 944, I guess.

My prediction Looking at the bigger picture:
718 S and GTS will be 6 cylinder Turbo (Possibly a new version that is slated for the 992 base Carrera that will actually fit)
Base 718 will be the 4 cylinder Turbo (mirrors Macan model hierarchy)
GT4 and Spyder will continue with NA 6 cylinder

There is not a big enough gap between the GTS and GT4/Spyder... unless they have a drastic price increase? Still don't see that happening simply based on the current volume of the 718... lowest model for Porsche currently and is ever decreasing (USA).
I could be wrong... Time will tell.

Remember too that at the lower end of the market ($60K+), Porsche is now facing competition from the new Z4/Supra. Someone who is young and got some hard earned money may be persuaded to check that BMW inline 6 instead. No matter how good the 718 chassis is, a prospective new owner will think twice about spending on a 4-cylinder vs that inline 6

Hmmm. I forget about those since they aren't on the road yet. Dealer network helps as well. Not a single Porsche dealership in my state. Getting my Porsches serviced is a pain. I swapped out my BMW for my 911, but I LOVED the dealership experience at BMW. I'd book an appointment online, pull into the service entrance at 7:30am and my service advisor would be standing there. She'd hand me the keys to a loaner that was already running with the door open for me. We'd repeat the process at 4:30pm.

More reason to transition the S and GTS to a six cylinder (NA or Turbo)

^^^^^^ :thumbup:

No-one is saying that the current 718 is not a fabulous car and better than it's predecessors. But wow, what about better still. It makes a lot of sense to have a 4-pot turbo entry level (like the Jaguar F-type) and then move up to 6 (not necessarily NA) for higher up the range. A 4-pot above 2 litres with a huge single turbo is unquestionably rough and vibratory and I've experienced no fuel economies in real world driving. And all this talk about torque, useful on the track perhaps or in a diesel truck. But I'll take the smooth sweetness of the old 6 any day. Put me in a new 718 full comfort version (not stripped down for tracking) and make fit some derivative of the 911's 3 litre small twin turbo (or even the old 981 na 3.4) and I'll pay any price. I'm sure Porsche could do this without undermining the 911's iconic status. After all, the 911 has become more of a big 2+2 Grand Tourer than Sports Car and Porsche will be in danger of losing market share in the sports segment against the likes of BMW's Z4 and Toyota's Supra. And God forbid when we get the next generation Jag F-type.

And the mid-engine Corvette, depending on price. Not my cup of tea, but I'm all kinds of curious about how it turns out. You can bet your backside I'll be there the second one hits a showroom floor in town.

If they put out a NA Cayman T it will have the same motor as the new GT4/Spyder, in a lower state of tune. There's no way a turbo 6 is going in the 718. If Porsche was ever going to do that, they never would have gone with the turbo 4.

Strong rumor (casual conversation with a rep at rennsport) is the Cayenne will follow Panamera engine use which means detuned 4.0 V8 turbo. Some question to when and if. I have a Cayenne GTS with the V6 turbo. At 440 HP it's all I need in an dd. I would much prefer a modern V8 that is more refined than the V6 turbo. Regardless of the direction in the 718 line takes I don't see getting rid of the 981 BGTS anytime soon. I just enjoy the car way too much to part with it.

The only reason I'd consider upgrading to a 718 with a flat six is due to the interior and PCM. Weather has kept me in my 991.2 the last four months and I spent time in a 718 GTS last weekend. Prefer the interior of the newer models, and the PCM in the newer models is light years above the 981.

Of course all that disappears when I put the top down and let it sing.

Speculation on a niche low volume 718? No, not at all. If the GT4 clubsport has the 3.8 liter flat six, then offering a GT4 touring model makes sense. More units to cover the engineering cost. The MSRP on the GT4 Touring will likely be near the GT4 Club Sport.

Speculation on a flat six replacing non-GT 718's? Yes. Hell yes. But folks can dream? Or is it living in the past? Depends on the person.

I never thought the video was of a Cayman T. It clearly had the exact same exhaust and rear valence of the Cayman GT4 and Boxster Spyder mules out there.
Looks like a GT4 Touring to me. This makes the most sense, given the popularity of the GT3 Touring.

I don't think the base/T/S/GTS models will be changing any time soon. The GT4 clearly has an N/A V8, most likely the 3.8 liter that's in the Clubsport.
They won't be switching to n/a flat sixes for non-GT models. The turbos aren't going anywhere. So what are they gonna do, drop in the 3 liter TT engine from the 992? No effing way would Porsche do that.
MAYBE they drop the displacement to the 2.5-2.7 liter range. But that still seems like a real stretch to me.

Not trying to bust your balls, but keep in mind the GT4 and GT4 Clubsport are different cars. One is a street car that will run in the neighborhood of $100K. The other is a race car that will run in the neighborhood of $150K or $180K depending on the flavor.

I'd be all about a Spyder Touring.

Understand, but who says the GT4 Touring (at this point entirely based on an Automobile "exclusive") will run $100k? My bet is no way that cheap.

I pulled that number right out of my backside! :)

The 2016 started around $85K to the $76K of the GTS. Was just speculating the 2020 GT4 would start around $100K to the $81K of the GTS. Would also fit with keeping the top Cayman right around the starting price of the base 911.

BUT... Porsche knows a LOT of folks are pining for a six in the 718. They might put a huge premium on it knowing people will pay it without blinking.

Give me a choice between an $80K 718 with a turbo four and a $100K 718 with a NA flat six and I'm paying the extra $20K every day and twice on Sunday. Now a turbo six? Yeah, I'd still probably pay the extra $20K. So long as it is as good as the turbo six in my 991.2 (meaning smaller twin turbos rather than a single larger turbo).

Isn't the Spyder already a Touring?

A proper 718 Cayman GT4 touring would suit me very well indeed. This means: the underpinnings and looks (front and diffuser) of the normal GT4 without that ostentatious rear wing and with leather rather than alcantara trim. A "GTS" (ie, non-GT) 6-cilinder much less.

I get your logic on the previous positioning of GTS vs.GT4, CaymanSinAR. If it is easy to fit the 3.8 flat-six into the 718, then you may be correct. I just thought that Porsche was going to "soften up" the GT4 Club Sport for the street. I just don't know the difference in engineering required between your version of the GT4 Touring and my "softened up" GT4 Touring.

I do agree that the 3.8 flat-six tuned with same HP/torque as the GT Club Sport is desirable as hell, maybe as much as Kate Upton. Oh, I just went too far... I'll take Kate, even if only once.

My mythical 718 Spyder Touring would have, at the very least, a power top and ventilated 18-way seats. :)

Really all I want is a (preferably NA) flat-six in a 718 Boxster. Call it an S, GTS, Spyder, whatever.

Honestly though, after spending last weekend at the track in a 718 GTS, were my 981 GTS to disappear tomorrow and I had to replace it on the spot I'd probably suck it up and get a 718 GTS rather than a used 981 GTS. My 991.2 just has me too spoiled in terms of interior and PCM.

What were your thoughts on the 718 GTS on the track, relative to your 981?

I've never tracked a 981, but did a chance to track the 718GTS in PDK, and was really impressed. And the engine sounded far better than I was expecting (admittedly, my bar was set pretty low given how much it's been trashed)

I've tracked a 981 BGTS and CGTS as well as a 718 Base (and many others). I also own a 981 BS and a 991.2 C4. I think the 718 is a fantastic car. Initially I was a hater because of the shift to the 4 cyl Turbo but after a 718 GTS kicked my butt while I was in my 911, I decided to take one to the track. It is a fantastic car and better than the 981 in every respect except exhaust note. Inside the car, the exhaust note sounds pretty good as you mentioned (symposers) but as an observer outside the car watching 981s and 718s fly by on a track, the 718s sound pretty bad. It's a great car though.

Agree.

I think the cost of a 718 GT4 is going to depend a lot on the engine that it comes with. If it has a detuned GT3 engine it will be a lot of money. Either way, it is going to be north of 100k imho. Recall that the 981 GT4 was under priced and demand significantly out stripped supply leading to another wave of allocations/production. I don't think Porsche will make this pricing mistake again. I also think there is a lot of built up demand for a 718 6 cylinder so when the GT4 does come out, it will go like hot cakes.

My guess: GT4 w/3.8L is around 105k. GT4 w/4.0L is around 115k to 120k.

Man, I'll be surprised if it gets a 4.0, but I totally agree, the prices are going up, and us crazies will pay.

I'm not sure whether to try to get on the list to get a spyder at sticker, or just wait for a CPO 718 boxter GTS for sale (gotta figure their prices will plummet once the flat 6 makes its comeback). I want a manual for sure, which lends itself to waiting for a flat 6 instead of the turbo 4. Then again, I've heard some say that the manual on the 718 is pretty amazing........I only drove the PDK on the track and it was unreal.
Thoughts on the gearbox ?


good to know the reasons for the engine sounding so good on the 718GTS.......that's certainly a little depressing to hear, but at the end of the day, it's gotta sound good to the person behind the wheel...... so I'll take it. lol.

Regarding the 718 GT4/Spyder, I wonder when we will finally know for sure, but I think it's unlikely it gets the defuned GT3 like so many of us had hoped initially. We know the club sport is getting the 991.1 engine .....

Not much to say, really. It's unassailable fact the 718 GTS is the better track car.

All I cared about was hearing the car. What I loathed about the 718 S was the industrial vacuum pump noise in the cabin when running hard. I haven't kept up with it much lately, but at one point I read the GTS did not come with the soundaktor device. Since then I've also read that it does, but it's been moved. In either case, this GTS had the 7.5amp controlling the soundaktor removed. So even if the GTS does have a soundaktor this one was disabled. Granted, part of it could have been my helmet, but to me it changed the car. That awful, intrusive artificial noise was gone. I always respected the heck out of the 718; now I like it.

Don't you mean the 718 4-pot needs a Sound Doctor? :icon501:

Does the 911 need a Sound Symposer? :rolleyes:

It already does. I have two in mine.

How shall we name the 6-cilinder model if it's no GT4?

718 Carrera? :icon107:

Porsche. There is no substitute. There is always a pretender coming along. The Z4 will be seen as a woman's car in time. Good luck BMW. And the Supra? How are the FR-S and BRZ selling?

What do the FR-S and BRZ have to do with anything?

There is a 6 cylinder non-GT Cayman/Boxster coming, no doubt about it. The real question is, where will it sit in the range...new model? GTS replacement? :corn:

Are you sure its not a GT? I thought they were calling it a GT4 Touring. Its all conjecture, with a few teasers from magazines so far. I mentioned BRZ/FR-S (low sales so far) because its a sharing project, like Z4/Supra.

Not sure of any specifics, but another 6cyl Boxster/Cayman variant that ISN'T the Spyder or standard GT4 is definitely in the pipeline.

And here are pics of one winter testing in Sweden.

https://www.motor1.com/news/304843/p...touring-spied/

Unlikely. Diffusers are "in"

Not likely. These new spy pics line up with the pics from a couple of months back. The side vents and exhaust are different from the GTS; however, it seems to have the GTS brakes, aero, etc. I'm guessing this will be new trim level between the GT4/Spyder and the GTS, just with ~400hp NA motor. That's not to say they won't still make a GT4 touring. That could be on the table too.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...bd5b3e4cee.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...897c1a876c.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...3ffb8d0c3e.jpg

I remember seeing some diffuser fins on the pics of the 992 GT3?

Could be that the diffuser has moved up a little bit and is harder to see in the pics. Might be using the same diffuser as the 911R/991.2 GT3?

One more thing I just noticed. Those are NOT the same brakes from the S/GTS. If you look closely, they look to be closer to the Carrera S brakes, which would make sense as another upgrade over the S/GTS trim.

718 S Brakes:
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...7d14940f5b.jpg


Test mule vs. 991.2S:

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...883f8a7560.jpg

Some more spy pics, including a Boxster version.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...9fb0c531d1.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...299e2c4a42.jpg

Dear Porsche,

SHUT UP AND TAKE (more of) MY MONEY!!!

Thanks,

CSAR

This-----^ LOL.

Why throw your money in an evolutionary dead end?

As far as I can tell, all 911s except the GT3 are turbo 6s...

To make money. Something at which Porsche is very, very good.

Or are you asking why a consumer would want to buy a 718 NA six?

NA is the evolutionary dead end.

We might go through one or two cycles with twin turbos (my bet is on one), a quick tour through the hybrid phase and by the mid to late twenties, hello 911EV!

And if you don't like the turbo engine sound, prepare yourself for silent running with a real Wall of Torque... Tune in on Formula E racing for a quick taste. ;)

Sad, but true. Exactly why I'm enjoying it while I can, and super pumped at the prospect of natural aspiration being extended in the Boxster/Cayman a bit longer.

Naturally aspirated engines and manual transmissions are sunk by turbos and dual-clutch transmissions (which in turn will be sunk by electric). In terms of performance numbers they are simply better. But the market, new and/or used, for naturally-aspirated cars and manual transmission cars will prosper for a long, long time.

For the record, I don't hate the turbo engine sound. My 991.2 sounds pretty bad ass under acceleration. It's just not something aurally I want to wring out and stay at high RPMs. That'a a bit of a disappointment for pleasure driving, but completely fine for daily driving. In fact, until I sorted out my Indiv setting on the 991.2 I pretty much didn't like the car and was disappointed with my purchase. But not anymore.

I've always liked the sound of the 718 from outside the car. Sure, I prefer the NA flat six wail, but the 718 is cool in its own way. It's the awful interior industrial vacuum pump noise of the soundaktor I hate. Pull the fuse for the soundaktor and the 718 becomes a much more tolerable proposition. I'd love it if more 718 haters got to experience it.

Yes, everything is turbo...except the best looking, highest performing, most fun to drive cars Porsche offers. Those are still NA...

I see - from videos - that the 918 is quite a hoot...

You are aware this thread is not about the 911? The 718 will be axed for an EV around 2022 but the 911 will soldier on with optional mild hybrid power for another 10 years from now and probably longer. But it will be the only Porsche with combustion engine then.

Even so, the dawn of the autonomous driving EV's is exactly the reason why an old school naturally aspirated manual driver's car is so appealing! It's one of the last chances to own (and drive!) one.

I'll have a manual GT4 touring, please. Yellow is perfect. With leather...

So what is the consensus on what this "might" be?

718 GT4 Touring or 718 S/GTS now offered with 6 cylinders?

No GT4 bumper covers. No GTS Sport Design Package. No 20" wheels. It doesn't conform to what we'd expect of a GT4 Turing or a GTS.

Porsche reached into its history for the 911T and 718 monikers. Maybe this car will get some 'historic' label too.

It's a mystery. :corn:

Would be a good move by Porsche if its true. The GT4 would be a purist's car and leave the 911 platform for those that opt for all the luxury laden features.

Sorry what has an evolutionary dead end got to do with this choice? Would you buy a turbo car and expect it to somehow evolve? Surely you buy the car based on what you enjoy and whether the car delivers it. The car is what it is, it's not going to change. So whether the tech for the engine is nearing the end of the line is nether here nor there for the car itself. I far prefer manual to PDK for instance. If the announced the end of all manuals for 2012, it wouldn't follow that I should buy PDK because the manual was an evolutionary dead end. On the contrary, I should rush out and buy manual while I can.

Same applies to naturally aspirated engines. They are becoming rarer, which if anything means if you prefer them you should grab one while you can.

Strangely, most of the reviewers are preferring the GT3 RS to the GT2 RS.

My point being, NA is only a dead end due to regulatory pressures, not due to any inherent flaw. For many, it still provides the most visceral, involved driving experience you can get. There will be naturally aspirated cars sold for a while yet and there will always be millions of them out there for purchase on the secondary market. Some people don't have shiny penny syndrome and some don't see a closed course lap time as the most important factor in their buying decision. Different strokes and all that.

This with a side of this.

Aside from a day at the track a couple of weekends ago it's been a long time since I've driven my 981 BGTS (too cold for summer tires). Put a new set of wheels and tires on it and drove it today to make sure they were balanced properly. Man, what a world of difference between it and my 991.2. I really like my 991.2 as a daily, but I'd forgotten how special the 981 really is. The sound is so raw, visceral, and aggressive. And that's in regular driving without PSE engaged. Everything feels mechanical and surgical precise. Love it.

I took my 2001 Miata out over the weekend. First time since October. After an hour of driving my face hurt from smiling. No better car for fun driving on the street.

Concur with explanation. The 991.2, while brilliant, is sedate. It's a great environment in which to drive in, but viscerally it's lacking. 991.1s and 981s are far better toys if you want lots of feedback from planting your foot. I also owned 2 first generation Miatas when I lived in Hawaii. I thought they were the perfect island car. I agree on slow roads they are a lot of fun as you get to wind them up. On bigger roads, the NA6 provides the same sensation, if you can get over the extra risk to your license. There's nothing a Miata can do better than a Porsche, except give you more thrill at lower speeds. My issue with the 718 has always been that the car is too easy to drive; therefore lacks fun. I say that with one (718 BGTS) sitting in my garage. Definitely the least fun Boxster/Cayman I've owned (of 6), no matter how capable and quick it is. And it is definitely capable and quick.

The only caveat I'll add to that is lightness. Of course that might be part of what you are referencing, but as much as I love my 981 it can't match the the feeling of lightness I get when driving my Miata. You can steer it through the curviest canyon with nothing more than a thumb and index finger on each hand, placing the car exactly where you want it with little more than a thought. And that steering feel...*



* I know. Not fair to compare the hydraulic NB2 to the electric 981.

One reason I love 987s so much is the steering. Combined with X73 suspension such as standard in the 2011 Boxster Spyder and 2012 Cayman R made for the most balanced and precise Porsches I've owned. They are also the lightest Porsches I've owned or driven. The RS60 as in my avatar is an honorable mention as it ushered in 300 hp 987s, and the howl of the non-DFI motor w/PSE is intoxicating. 987s have a fun factor that Porsche progressed away from. Partly that tossible feeling.

Here are some new spy shots of the Boxster, with some close up shots of the rear diffuser and exhaust. Another thing that stands out to me is the ride height, as it looks to sit a bit higher than the cars equipped with the Sport PASM option. I'm wondering if this model will be offered with the standard -10mm PASM, along with Sport PASM, just like the standard 718 S and GTS.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...b55510e478.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...367153f29b.jpg

Maybe it's a 2 cylinder. Would be a fitting stopgap for 2022 when the 718 will be a zero cilinder EV.

:icon107:

Porsche is buying Subaru's 3.6 engine as a stopgap before full EV. Got a good price since Subaru is discontinuing it

Whao. You may have crossed a line there.

Yup
:roflmao:

:p

He's got it half right worf928.

It is an even trade. Porsche got the Subaru engines to try to figure out why Japanese taxis for crying out loud, are blowing the doors off the Carreras for the last twenty years...

Subaru in return, got a boatload of NA-6 engines that are useless (to Porsche anyway). They are trying to put them in one of their cheaper SUVs like the Forester... :bigbye:

Looks like you got tar and feathered out of Texas!...:roflmao:

Dems fightin' words son. With your predilection for Subaru engines I'm guessing you're a transplant anyway.

As for me, I moved to Boston for school and because it was warmer in the winter than West Texas.

Yeah, I ran with a Subaru crowd in the early 2000s. Some of the Stage II WRXs and STis were amazing. I had a NA Forester, because I wanted the car for the mountains to go skiing.

You are right, that I am a transplant. The oil companies needed us PhD fellows to run their research...;)

And by the way, don't call a 65 year old ...son. Texas or no Texas ;)

According to a salesman who claims to have talked to a technician about this, what we're seeing here is likely just what Porsche did on the Taycan: add fake exhaust tips and a speaker while testing an electric model to throw everyone off.

Except in the case of the Boxster E

The Porsche dealer salesperson I talked to past weekend claimed the "GTS" style bodied Cayman with "GT4" rear diffuser was indeed the upcoming Cayman 6 with the 4,0 liter. He claimed the 4,0 from the GT3 is world-wide emission-proof and therefore it makes sense to use it in more models such as the GT4/Spyder and the Cayman/Boxster 6. He could have read all that here, but that's what he said.

I'm as big an NA flat six lover as anyone, but at this point I almost hope a 718 6 remains Rennlist fantasy. Don't need to spend more money.

Selfish, but honest. :D

Honestly, most dealers (although well intended) don't know what is going on. Porsche briefs them very late for a reason. Dealerships are not Porsche employees.....they are a separate business (franchise) and Porsche just doesn't like to tell them anything because they leak stuff all the time. Your SA is just regurgitating rumors he has read from the auto rags and forums.

Agree with above.

Hate to be a skeptic, but yes, your honest Porsche SA will actually tell you "Porsche doesn't tell us anything". Rather they will flick you the latest media articles based on official Porsche press release.

In reality there would be a very small circle of people at Stuttgart who knows what is going on. Journos are great for generating rumors to generate traffic for their site or magazine.

THIS. :) :)

The underlying reason that Porsche went to a 4 cyl turbo for the 718 was to meet EU carbon emission standards which reduce CO2 car emissions by 40% by 2021 when compared to 2007 emissions. There are penalties imposed on each car which doesn't meet the standard. The penalty varies with how much the standard is missed. Car companies can accumulate credits by building cars which reduce emissions beyond the standard. So given this political environment, I don't see a departure from the 4cyl turbos for the Boxster/Cayman, unless they go electric. I suspect that Porsche will accumulate enough credits to allow their 911 models to remain 6 cyl. My guess is that GT cars which are produced in tiny quantities will have NA engines, but at a hefty premium.

Regarding the bolded part, take a look at the production numbers for the 991.2 GT cars. Specifically the GT3 and GT3 RS. The sales numbers are huge, and that is thanks to the massive GT3 numbers. The 991.2 GT numbers were so good Porsche CEO Oliver Blume says the 992 generation will feature more GT variants than ever before. Of course not all of them will be NA, but those that are won't be in tiny numbers.

This is an interesting and plausible concept. Most of Porsche's range (eg., Cayenne, 718, Macan, 992, etc) is now turbo changed smaller capacity engines with particulate filters so it is possible they could generate enough credits to fund their GT cars which form a relatively smaller % of sales, yet no doubt still have reasonably low emission levels.

I have not heard of this scheme before for the motor vehicle industry but here in Australia high Energy Users (polluters) like Electricity Companies are required to purchase energy savings certificates to offset their high energy use otherwise they have to pay a penalty. I'm sure there are similar schemes in Europe where as you say organisations receive credits for reducing pollution.

So, it looks like it is going to be a touring edition of the Spyder/GT4

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/05/po...er-and-cayman/

Cool. That proves my theory wrong that Porsche would not spend engineering time on a six for the 718 road going cars. I still think the price of these 6 cylinder touring models will be significantly higher than the GTS.

Am I thinking of another site, or is Car Scoops the one that prints *a lot* of nonsense as fact?

I won't lie, I go to bed dreaming about a 718 Spyder Touring. If every word in that article is true I'll be the happiest enthusiast in America. I'll also sell my 991.2 911, 981 Boxster GTS, and NB2 Miata. In their place will be a DCT Veloster N* and manual 718 Boxster Spyder Touring.



*The DCT version has not hit yet but has been spied in testing. It's coming.

Yep.

A proper GT4 touring would have the same exterior bar the rear wing. This one only shares the rear diffuser and exhaust layout with the GT4. Wheels are different, brakes are a lot smaller, no side scoops, front fascia from a GTS, doesn't sit as low as GT4...

I believe it's a 6 cilinder, just no touring. It will not sell in great numbers here in EU without the GT credentials.

Yup--it's all just click bait.
Porsche is really good at keeping secrets until it's announcement time.

No one has mentioned the elephant in the room - price.

I have. I believe that the GT4 touring will be quite expensive, and priced much higher than the GTS. In my early morning thoughts, while half awake, I did reckon where Porsche could streamline 718 into three models:

1. Base 2.0
2. T 2.0
3. GT4 Touring

Doing so eliminates the possibility of the 2.5 GTS "whooping" the 4.0l flat six GT4. I don't mean to insult anyone. The 2.5 turbo has prodigious, usable torque. But I can tell you, at an equal price, I'll take the GT4 Touring over the 2.5 GTS

Pretty decent spec 718 GTS specs in the $90s. I'd have no problem paying $120K for a similar spec with the flat six.

Of course the GTS actually sells for A LOT less than MSRP. A Touring Package with the flat six might not.

@CaymanSinAR I think you'll be fine at $120k. Good luck! I feel your enthusiasm!

It'll be more than $120k USD, I'd bet.

You think they'll pass up the opportunity for massive profits on this car?

I posted this months ago in another thread for the GT4 pricing:

Porsche sports cars can be mapped on a hp vs $ chart. Pick a price and hp falls in a narrow range. Or pick a hp number and price falls in a narrow range.

So, if this 6-pot has 380 hp it’ll be priced on the low 90s. If 425 hp it’ll push $110k.

I’m still fantasizing about a Cayman Turbo at 430+ hp with the 9A2 motor from the 991.2s. Figure close to $120 for that.

That's my wish too....added bonus is we'll get rid of some of the NA cork-sniffing collectors/hoarders and leave more cars for drivers/enthusiasts. Kill two birds with one stone.:cheers:

Although I prefer the sound of a flat 6, I have to admit I don’t think I would want to give up the torque and low end power of the 4 in my new 718gts now that I have experienced it for one of these rumored touring 718s with 6 cylindars. If they make them around 380hp which is the figure being thrown around right now it would pretty much be like the current 981 gt4. Anyone else think they would stick with the turbo 4? I guess I would love to see a turbo 6 to combine the best attributes of both engines, but that aint happening!

Hey... don't harsh our mellow, Man! :p

The diffuser is "not" same as the GT4/Spyder's. It is pretty shallow; barely there. "Only" thing this mystery mule shares with GT4/Spyder protos is the exhaust layout. Nothing else, as you noted yourself. So, this proto is "not" GT4 Touring. It might still be a 6. It could as well be GTS. Way back, someone with inside scoop commented that 6 is coming, just calling it Cayman 6/Boxster 6. It believe it was Chris. Either he or someone else mentioned that there is a heated debate within Porsche whether or not to release such a model.

I don't think next gen's pricing will be dramatically different from 981's; it will be in line with rest of the model hierarchy and past pricing patterns. As we know, Porsche practices well defined methodology of model hierarchy and pricing. So, I expect 982 gen will still be considered a "bargain", in Porsche World! If the Cayman 6/Boxster 6 turn out to be GTS models, as opposed to a new model, then GT4/Spyder's pricing becomes less complicated.

Ah yes, I wasn't paying attention to the actual shape of the diffuser, you are correct! This would interest me a lot more if it were a proper GT4 Touring (hence with the same brakes, suspension...), but alas the Cayman 6 (name is used inside Porsche dealerships also) is certainly not that. I changed my mind about the wing of the GT4 anyway. Although I am a big fanboy of the 911 R and GT3 Touring, I now believe the GT4 is better looking with the wing than without it. It's a much "younger" model after all. Certainly in Racing Yellow.

I in fact would stick with my new 718 GTS as well. The torque is addictive

I testdrove a 718 GTS and I have to admit it's blisteringly fast. That sound is not so addictive, though... My humble 2,7 sounds way better.

I just bought a 718 gts and I am definitely impressed with the performance. I would love for it to sound like a 6 but won’t trade unless the performance is equal to or better than the current gts. It’s going to be interesting to see which 6 cylinder engine at what output they are going to put in the car and what pricing will look like.

I have been tracking my 2017 Cayman 718 S 4-banger all year and I must say, 350 hp (and it's more than that really) is all I need and all I can handle. The only improvement I wish I had in my car is sport seats with four-point belts. (I am working way too hard to stay planted in my seat). The last thing I need is two more cylinders, each putting out another 90 horsepower. Watch the hot Miata drivers get around the track like bullets, and with only 200hp! They fricking never lift! Give them two more cylinders and you'd slow them down.

So...

I heard today from someone who knows someone who's cleaning lady works for someone who works at PCNA, that 4-banger Caymans and Boxsters are done in the US within a few weeks: no new orders accepted. However, a 6-cylinder replacement is coming.

FWIW. Large grain of salt. Etc.

Remember that game kids play where they sit in a circle and one person starts by whispering something in the ear of the person next to them, and it goes around until the story gets back to the original person and the story has been twisted in the telling? I suspect that is the case here. It *is* true there is about to be a major change in 718 production... because 718 production will be taken offline and moved to a new production facility in Osnabrueck. Demand for the 992 911 has surpassed expectations so they are taking the 718 production line in Stuttgart and tooling it to produce more 992s.

At least that is my guess.

I hope we get the rumored flat six Boxster/Cayman. Would be great to have a four and six cylinder (NA or turbo) option.

2.5 liter 6 with a SC instead of a turbo,, Get the thing down on weight, strip it down hard,
nothing that doesn't make it a sports-car. I bet they could build a smaller car in the lines of a caymen in the < 2400 lb range.
Basically my 69 911, with a 2.0 that "under-powered" Porsche is still my favorite drive ever..
Should be able to make a 350HP pull and throttle back to Subaru mileage. Hell ford can do it with ecoboost..

I can dream! :)

Absolutely. It's called "The Telephone Game" and I first 'played' it in first grade. It left a deep impression and is a lesson I often attempted to teach my teams back when I had teams.

A very plausible theory, especially since were getting close enough to the yearly production shutdown that one would expect 'the order book' for MY'19 cars to close in any case.

My personal theory is that the F4 will continue in parts of the world were displacement is taxed.

That would blow my mind. How would you envision the model lineup? Meaning no more Base, T, S, or GTS; just the 6?

Would be interesting. The Boxster/Cayman is Porsche's lowest volume vehicle in the States by a huge margin. They'd be accepting it as an even more niche vehicle than it already is. Would certainly be out of character for Porsche as they are known for slicing the pie quite thin.

Curious how performance would end up as well. Detractors can say what they want about the turbo engines, but the performance can't be denied. There is no performance metric in which the turbos don't mollywhop the prior NA engines.

I'm not concerned about the Boxster/Cayman over the next few years, but I'm darn sure curious and love speculating back and forth! :D

Germans don't like to admit mistakes. Porsche's more German than German and won't admit mistakes even with their collective heads shoved in a bucket of evidence. (Yes, I have examples but they are too close to my soap box.)

Thus, discontinuing the flat-4 would mean Porsche having to admit to a mistake or, at minimum, a monumentally bad decision to spend many hundreds of millions of Euro to develop an engine platform used for 3 years only.

So, China and other "2-liter" countries will have a choice of flat-4s. US will get flat-6s. RoW? Who knows.

That's my guess.

Of course, my guess, back in 2016-ish, was little flat-6s rather than flat-4s because I couldn't imagine (many) folks in the US paying Porsche prices for four-cylinder cars.

Nope. In the US the Panamera Sport Turismo(*) is the lowest. And if you don't split 718s by roof architecture then they have arguably the same volume as all Panameras.

(*)We were going to buy a PST until I saw one in the flesh and realized it would need two bays in the garage; the phuker is huuuuUge.

But, I take declining Boxster/Cayman sales as proof that I was, originally, correct: Americans don't want to pay close-to-6-figures for four-bangers. (Given that the mid-engine platform has always been cross-shopped with the Corvette going to a flat-4 was just !@##ing stupid in my opinion.)


What percentage of 718 sales are base? I'd bet less than 20%. I'd not be shocked out of my skin if it was closer to 10% (But, someone with time or access would need to mine that data and compile it for us. The @ss-engine folks have done this for the 991 on the other forum.) So, I don't see dropping the base as a big 'sales deal' if the S/GTS gets a 6-pot. I think the gain on the 6-pot side would be more than the loss on the 4-pot side.

Again I have to say nope. Plenty of existence proofs for Porsche not offering specific sub-models in the states. But, as above, dropping the base doesn't make the pie that much thinner.

So... here's my (obviously flawed) crystal ball:

718 base, S, with flat-4s, not offered in N.A.

718 GTS, GT4 offered with flat-6s in N.A.

Or.... if you *really* want to slice it wafer thin...

Base, S, GTS trims offered with both F-4 and F-6 motors depending upon region. One model called 718s and the other called 982s. Or something...

Except real-world gas mileage and real-world pollution. :p

Why do y'all continue to post baseless speculation when literally the only thing we know is we're getting a GT4 and some sort of other 6 cylinder model?

Your first day on the Internet? :roflmao:

Some are wishful thinkers. Some have nothing better to do. Some love Kremlinism. Some think its just plain fun. Many on the 718 board don't even own one.

I continue to believe EV is on its way and flat 6 talk is just a diversion from the future.

Agreed then and now.

I didn't mean the Base Boxster/Cayman specifically; I meant the Boxster/Cayman as a whole.

In the States the total Boxster/Cayman sales numbers for 2017 and 2018 is around 8,000 vehicles (provided the 2017 numbers don't include MY2016 vehicles). The Panamera has sold around 15,000 in that same time.

I can't speak to pollution (though I know you are correct), but gas mileage sure is true. I can cane the heck out of my 981 BGTS all day long and get 23-25. My 991.2? Not so much, even when driving it easier.

We don't even know that much!

But I enjoy the heck out of speculating.

Right. But, my point was losing the base model is a small dent in overall 718 sales. I opine that the small dent would be more than filled in by a 6-pot model in the lineup.
The numbers I dug up were just over 10k sales for the 718 and 14k sales for the Panamera. These two models are at the bottom of Porsche's sales numbers. The 718 is the worst seller but not by what I would call a huge margin over the next lowest selling model (assuming my numbers are correct.)

Damn. It only took a year for Porsche to announce the GTS 4.0. Pretty much exactly as expected.