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718 refresh or replacement

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Old 01-09-2018, 04:38 AM
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Porschefan604
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Default 718 refresh or replacement

Hi,

I’m considering a new 718 Boxster GTS. Does anyone have any insight into what’s next for the 718?

On one hand, the 718 borrows a lot from the 981 - you can almost consider it a refresh on the 981 that’s been out since 2012. For the 991.2’s, it seems like the refreshed model will only last 2 years with the new 992 expected later this year as a 2019 model. It seems logical that Porsche might redesign the 718 completely within 6-12 months of the 992’s release (perhaps as a new 2020 model) - especially since many parts are shared between them.

However, the 718 actually has a new chassis designation (982), so perhaps a refreshed 718 is due in a year or two before a complete redesign much later (2024 model)?
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Old 01-09-2018, 12:38 PM
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kiznarsh
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I'd be surprised if they refreshed the 718 any sooner than 2-3 years and even then, it would be mainly cosmetic stuff with a new tune that provides a slight hp increase.
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Old 01-09-2018, 12:48 PM
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Honestly, it doesn't borrow that much at all from the 981. I wouldn't wait around for the next big thing if you like the 718.
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Old 01-09-2018, 02:29 PM
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Aside from the exterior sheet metal, doesn't the 718 share 90% of the interior with the 981's and 991's (doors, seats, console, switches, dimensions)? The only change I can see from the 981 are the A/C vents. While the 2017 PCM is new, it's the same shape and mounted like the old unit.

Spy pictures on the 992 suggest that it will adapt a similar interior from the new Panamera. A new 718 would likely adapt a similar interior to the 992 shortly after (for production efficiencies).

Usually the GTS model is introduced in the last 1-2 years of a model's life. So I'm looking for thoughts on whether the next iteration of the 718 is merely a facelift or a more significant redesign (i.e. new chassis, interior, dimensions).
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:43 PM
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Historically it's pretty much followed the cycle of the 911. The 911 is going through a significant model change with the 992, so I'd expect significant changes in the 718 shortly thereafter. At the very least, they're going to have to make significant changes in this package if they want to increase its desirability and improve sales.
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:02 PM
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It's a perfectly fine car. All they need to do is price it correctly for the four-cylinder market, and it will succeed. But hey, this is Porsche we're talking about here...
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Noah Fect View Post
It's a perfectly fine car. All they need to do is price it correctly for the four-cylinder market, and it will succeed. But hey, this is Porsche we're talking about here...
That got me thinking...how does it compare with some other 4-bangers? Threw in the RS3 for fun as I know a couple people who traded in their 981s for them. I don't know if anyone would cross-shop a 718 with the Focus RS but then again, maybe they would.

Figures are base MSRP.

718 S – 350 hp – $67.7k
Jaguar F-Type 2.0 – 296 hp – $59.9k
Audi RS3 – 400 hp – $54.9k
Mercedes-AMG CLA45 – 375 hp – $50k
Audi S3 – 292 hp – $44k
Ford Focus RS – 350 hp – $41k
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Old 01-09-2018, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
Honestly, it doesn't borrow that much at all from the 981. I wouldn't wait around for the next big thing if you like the 718.
I think I get what you mean but the differences and steps forward from the 986 to 987 to 981 were far more pronounced than the 981 to 982. The average automotive enthusiast probably can't tell the difference between a 981 and 982 at a quick glance. Took me a bit to appreciate the 981 as I'm a huge fan of the 987 which did grow up a lot on its own from the .1 to .2. The Boxster has been a big hit since inception and I wouldn't begin to predict where Porsche will go from here. I fear it's becoming something it was never intended to be, which is an expensive luxury 2 seater. I think it's getting away from being mostly all about the driving experience. A boost button? Seriously?

Last edited by MidEngineRules; 01-09-2018 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 01-09-2018, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by kiznarsh View Post
That got me thinking...how does it compare with some other 4-bangers? Threw in the RS3 for fun as I know a couple people who traded in their 981s for them. I don't know if anyone would cross-shop a 718 with the Focus RS but then again, maybe they would.

Figures are base MSRP.

718 S – 350 hp – $67.7k
Jaguar F-Type 2.0 – 296 hp – $59.9k
Audi RS3 – 400 hp – $54.9k
Mercedes-AMG CLA45 – 375 hp – $50k
Audi S3 – 292 hp – $44k
Ford Focus RS – 350 hp – $41k
This is a ridiculous comparison. Should the 911 be priced according to other 6 cylinder sports cars?
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Old 01-09-2018, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by haen View Post
This is a ridiculous comparison. Should the 911 be priced according to other 6 cylinder sports cars?
I'm not saying it should be priced lower but if people can't stomach paying close to $100k for a turbo 4, I just threw out some other options for fun. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

The dislike that some have of the 718 is rooted in cylinder count along with the noise.
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Old 01-09-2018, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by haen View Post
This is a ridiculous comparison. Should the 911 be priced according to other 6 cylinder sports cars?
The Porsche flat six has no excuses to make to anyone. A four-banger, rightly or wrongly, is always going to be considered a downmarket powerplant.

Don't agree? Offer a four-banger as an option in the 911 and see how that goes. Better yet, stop selling the 911 altogether in favor of a modern "912," and see how that goes.
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Old 01-10-2018, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by MidEngineRules View Post
I think I get what you mean but the differences and steps forward from the 986 to 987 to 981 were far more pronounced than the 981 to 982.
I'm not sure how the changes couldn't be bigger unless they changed the entire shape of the car. It has an entirely new engine type, new suspension offerings, new sheet metal almost everywhere, new front and rear fascia, new wheels, new steering, uprated brakes, multiple new interior design elements, new PCM, etc. To me, the 718 is an almost entirely different car than the 981. Other than having the same general shape, they're as different to me as the 987/981. To the OP's point though, I don't think Porsche saw the 718 as a minor evolution/mid cycle refresh at all, so I wouldn't expect the next version to be a big step change. I think the next step will be a .2 version, with the next major change still years away. If one likes the 718, there's no reason to wait like there might be with the Carrera and the 992 just around the corner.
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Old 01-10-2018, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
I'm not sure how the changes couldn't be bigger unless they changed the entire shape of the car. It has an entirely new engine type, new suspension offerings, new sheet metal almost everywhere, new front and rear fascia, new wheels, new steering, uprated brakes, multiple new interior design elements, new PCM, etc. To me, the 718 is an almost entirely different car than the 981. Other than having the same general shape, they're as different to me as the 987/981. To the OP's point though, I don't think Porsche saw the 718 as a minor evolution/mid cycle refresh at all, so I wouldn't expect the next version to be a big step change. I think the next step will be a .2 version, with the next major change still years away. If one likes the 718, there's no reason to wait like there might be with the Carrera and the 992 just around the corner.
Not that I agreed with Jeremy Clarkson when he ripped Porsche over the 997 redesign from the 996, but that effort was monumental comparatively to what Porsche have done here. If you want to nit-pick minor sheet metal modifications I'd say well then it's the laziest makeover in Porsche history (quoting Clarkson), to include the interior. I can't even refer to it as a redesign with a straight face. I assumed you were factoring in the power plant in your assessment which I wasn't and still am not. That's a given. The expectation from modern day Porsche has been to see at least a moderate redesign from generation to generation, exterior and interior. I'm apt to believe this minor makeover was purposeful as the 981/718 aesthetic is still 1) well within the typical Porsche design life cycle, 2) Porsche was taking enough risk by changing the engine formula which radically changed their trademark flat 6 engine note at this price point, and 3) car makers are being fairly conservative with design changes these days erring on a more conservative approach (example BMW E9X to F1X, same basic aesthetic now spanning 13 model years). What suspension change? If anything they went backwards by not offering the optional X73 sport suspension from the 987 and 981. With PASM you don't get the stiffer ARBs and subsequent sharp transitions and flat cornering. Steering change, yes. But the 718's tighter steering system with its "perceptibly more immediate ratio than that of the previous models" was lifted from the 981 Spyder. So aside from the significant change to the power plant, the basic aesthetic is identical to a 981. Getting back to the OP's interest, I do agree the 718 is no mid-cycle change from the 981 so there very well should be a .2 version. Aside from the usual minimal power bumps and front/rear fascia updates not sure what else they can do other than adopt the 991.2 S brakes once the 992 is out. Long story short, I agree there's no reason to wait on the .2, this year. Next year may be too close to the .2 so why not wait? If you want to wait on the .2 then I'd suggest buying a nice 987 S and drive it for 2 years and you'll probably get most of your money back and have a lot of driving fun in the interim. I bought my last 987 Boxster S (RS60) for $39k, drove it over 2 years, put nothing in it other than a new battery, and received $37.5k in trade at a Porsche dealer.
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Old 01-10-2018, 08:24 PM
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As long as Porsche is in business, there will always be another teasing car coming on the horizon. It's good and bad. I'd hate it if Porsche wasn't making new cars any more. But the downside of them making new cars is every year you own your car, it's 1 year older than the "cool new" stuff coming off the assembly line. I'm so happy with my car right now, I could care less about any other cars. I'm sure my love affair will wane as some point and some hot-looking new body and sweet sounding voice of a new car will turn my head. But the 718 did not and will not. Will take more, and I'm sure that's coming to a showroom near us in the coming years.
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Old 01-10-2018, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by MidEngineRules
[LEFT]
Not that I agreed with Jeremy Clarkson when he ripped Porsche over the 997 redesign from the 996, but that effort was monumental comparatively to what Porsche have done here. If you want to nit-pick minor sheet metal modifications I'd say well then it's the laziest makeover in Porsche history (quoting Clarkson), to include the interior. I can't even refer to it as a redesign with a straight face. I assumed you were factoring in the power plant in your assessment which I wasn't and still am not. That's a given. The expectation from modern day Porsche has been to see at least a moderate redesign from generation to generation, exterior and interior. I'm apt to believe this minor makeover was purposeful as the 981/718 aesthetic is still 1) well within the typical Porsche design life cycle, 2) Porsche was taking enough risk by changing the engine formula which radically changed their trademark flat 6 engine note at this price point, and 3) car makers are being fairly conservative with design changes these days erring on a more conservative approach (example BMW E9X to F1X, same basic aesthetic now spanning 13 model years). What suspension change? If anything they went backwards by not offering the optional X73 sport suspension from the 987 and 981. With PASM you don't get the stiffer ARBs and subsequent sharp transitions and flat cornering. Steering change, yes. But the 718's tighter steering system with its "perceptibly more immediate ratio than that of the previous models" was lifted from the 981 Spyder. So aside from the significant change to the power plant, the basic aesthetic is identical to a 981.
So except for entirely different engine, suspension, wheels, brakes, body panels, interior trim and electronics, they're exactly the same...
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