Spring comparison chart
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Pro
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Abruzzo (ITALY)
Spring comparison chart
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 233
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From: Colchester, UK
Brilliant - exactly what I was looking for. I now see the Eibach Pro are slightly softer than the H&R Green so might be more suited for a cabriolet which is less rigid. More of a replacement for standard springs and giving a slightly softer ride. Hmm...must use the archives and read about the relative comparisions of them! Now all I need to know is where the Designtek ones are in comparision.
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Instructor
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
From: San Sebastián de los Reyes, Madrid (Kingdom of Spain)
Hi, happy new year first of all,
Regarding spring rates, i'm studying Ruf m030 option for my 1990 Carrera 2, anyone knows where to place those Ruf springs in terms of lbs/inch?.
Where do you think about green H&R for the front and red H&R for the rear axle? Car mostly (70%) used on the street (A&B roads) but track will take more importance. Now I have Eibach + Bilstein HD and standard sway bars, 17" Cup I wheels with Toyo R888 for the track.
Thanks a lot,
David
Regarding spring rates, i'm studying Ruf m030 option for my 1990 Carrera 2, anyone knows where to place those Ruf springs in terms of lbs/inch?.
Where do you think about green H&R for the front and red H&R for the rear axle? Car mostly (70%) used on the street (A&B roads) but track will take more importance. Now I have Eibach + Bilstein HD and standard sway bars, 17" Cup I wheels with Toyo R888 for the track.
Thanks a lot,
David
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,405
Likes: 75
From: S.E. VA
Interesting question, David.
Here's my purely amateur speculation...
My first thought re such a front/rear mix would be the new ratio of front-to-rear spring rates.
With that in mind, I made up a little spread sheet of the above values, along with your proposed mix. (see the table, below)
It seems your proposal isn't anything new, front-to-rear springrate ratio-wise, that hasn't been used elsewhere... ie, Other manufacturers have used front/rear spring rate ratios that bracket what you propose.
But be clear: Doing your own experimenting means being the first to encounter any downside of your experimental set-up
Anybody wanna chime in with their own thoughts?
Here's my purely amateur speculation...
My first thought re such a front/rear mix would be the new ratio of front-to-rear spring rates.
With that in mind, I made up a little spread sheet of the above values, along with your proposed mix. (see the table, below)
It seems your proposal isn't anything new, front-to-rear springrate ratio-wise, that hasn't been used elsewhere... ie, Other manufacturers have used front/rear spring rate ratios that bracket what you propose.
But be clear: Doing your own experimenting means being the first to encounter any downside of your experimental set-up
Code:
------------------------------------- Front (lbs/in) Rear (lbs/in) front/rear ratio Spring Type---------------------------- lo load Hi load lo load Hi load Lo Load Hi Load 89-91 C2/C4--------------------------- 158 - 189 - 0.84 - 92-94 C2/C4--------------------------- 169 - 189 - 0.89 - M030--------------------------------- 150 200 225 275 0.67 0.73 RS ----------------------------------- 250 308 375 508 0.67 0.61 Carrera Cup-------------------------- 200 600 240 800 0.83 0.75 Bilstein PSS9----------------------- 225 250 400 685 0.56 0.36 KW v3---------------------------------- 57 171 114 457 0.5 0.37 Eibach Pro-------------------------- 82.6 250 188 256 0.44 0.98 H&R green-------------------------- 190 255 220 265 0.86 0.96 H&R red------------------------------- 250 270 265 285 0.94 0.95 H&R coilover------------------------ 250 285 265 285 0.94 1 H&R 964 Supercup-------------------- 455 - 685 - 0.66 - H&R Performance St----------------- 500 - 780 - 0.64 - Weltmeister------------------------- 180 - 268 - 0.67 - H&R Green_Fr +Red_Rr--(David's Test) 190 255 265 285 0.72 0.89
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,632
Likes: 2
From: Milton Keynes, UK
My only immediate thought is that the Red and Green springs are different lengths. Greens lower up to 40mm, Reds only 35mm. I guess a 5mm difference is no big deal since that can easily be accommodated in the threaded adjustment on the strut - but it's worth bearing in mind.
Dave
Dave
AutoX
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: San Jose, CA
Great discussion...
I just upgraded from H&R Green with Bilstein HD shocks to the Cup suspension (also Bilstein) with spring rates of 400 (front) and 550 (rear). A big improvement in terms of eliminating the 'diving' and 'rising' when the car is under heavy breaking, accelerating changes. I haven't had a chance to drive the new setup on the track yet, but I can already see the differences in spirited street driving. I may upgrade to slightly firmer springs to get the car even more stablized although I suspect that at that point I won't be able to drive the car to the track anymore and need a trailer.
I just upgraded from H&R Green with Bilstein HD shocks to the Cup suspension (also Bilstein) with spring rates of 400 (front) and 550 (rear). A big improvement in terms of eliminating the 'diving' and 'rising' when the car is under heavy breaking, accelerating changes. I haven't had a chance to drive the new setup on the track yet, but I can already see the differences in spirited street driving. I may upgrade to slightly firmer springs to get the car even more stablized although I suspect that at that point I won't be able to drive the car to the track anymore and need a trailer.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
From: Farmington, MI
Does anyone know where the KW Clubsports fall in this spring rate chart ? I also wonder about KW race springs over Smart Racing Products custom Bilstein Cup shocks w/ F&R 41 valving.
Also, why are Supercups not found on the H&R website ? I'm looking to increase rates over H&R Red as those are still way soft for serious track events.
It looks to me like KW Clubsport, assuming a rate near H&R Supercups, with their seemingly very nicely done optional race top mounts, may be the way for me to go. KW seems to be clearly aiming Clubsport as a DE type kit.
How have track oriented users implemented top mount on the Supercup ? Does H&R offer some monoball adjustable mount ?
Also, why are Supercups not found on the H&R website ? I'm looking to increase rates over H&R Red as those are still way soft for serious track events.
It looks to me like KW Clubsport, assuming a rate near H&R Supercups, with their seemingly very nicely done optional race top mounts, may be the way for me to go. KW seems to be clearly aiming Clubsport as a DE type kit.
How have track oriented users implemented top mount on the Supercup ? Does H&R offer some monoball adjustable mount ?