ronmart

I have a midnight blue 997 C4s cabriolet and I'm going to try to do the perfect Zaino detail next weekend. Here's my plan (partially audited on Autopia). I'd like to see what you guys think to see if I'm missing anything...

1. I will wash my car as usual with with Griots Car Wash (keep reading)

2. I'll clay as needed using Griots Clay as I like it more than Sonus & Zaino's. (I don't clay while washing because I have to wash in the sun and that will result in water spots)

3. I'll polish any defects out of the paint using Griots Machine Polish 3 (or 2 if there any bad spots).

4. I'll prepare the paint with a coat of Griots Paint Prep which helps to remove wax & sealants.

5. I'll spray the car down with one coat of Z6 and wipe it off (in sections of course) using a blue Sonus MF towel.

6. I'll mix a HALF ounce of Z5 Pro with 2 drops of ZFX and apply a THIN layer to the whole car (as I would do with Klasse AIO & SG) using a Z6 moistend microfiber applicator (orange Sonus ones).

7. I'll park the car out in the dry sun to help it cure as Sal did in Arizona. I'll be working on a limited timetable, so I simply can't wait more than an hour between coats. It should be in the 70's or maybe 80's when I'm doing this with 100% sunshine (no clouds).

8. I'll buff off the first coat in the garage and then repeat steps 5 & 6. I'll repeat step 7 afterwards. My goal is 2 coats of Z5 Pro.

9. I'll REPEAT step 5 (Z6), then I'll use straight Z2 Pro WITHOUT ZFX and apply a THIN layer to the whole car using a Z8 moistend microfiber applicator for one final coat.

10. On Monday after the last coat of Z2 Pro has had 24 hours to set up, I'll finish with a SINGLE coat of Z8 when I do a full car wipe down using a Sonus Blue MF towel.

Please let me know what I'm missing or how I should change my plans for my car. I'm going to print our the final version and use it as my cookbook when I do my car next weekend.

Steps 1 - 4 will take ALL of next Saturday for me (just car washes take me 3 hours - I'm too **** about dirt).

I'll have roughly 6 hours to do steps 5 - 9 on Sunday. I'm hoping I can get it all done that day, and just have #10 to do on Monday.

If by some miracle I should finish early on Saturday, I might prep my windows and wheels and do those in advance of the Sunday marathon.

SimonExtreme

Wow! That really seems to have all the bases covered but I cannot understand why you would need to go as far as you are on such a new car. However, it seems you have had better advice than I can give! I cannot comment on what you are doing before applying the Zaino products but I can, however, comment from my own experiences of Zaino.

First question is whether you really need Z5. If you have swirls, then OK, but remember than Z5 will hide swirls, not get rid of them. Secondly, I haven't heard of applying a coat of Z6 BEFORE Z5.

Next, if you are adding ZFX, you should get drying times well inside of the hour you mention. In 80 degrees and sunshine, by the time I have finished applying, where I started is ready to buff. However, I have normally left it for another 15 mins, just to be safe. It's easy to check with a finger test.

What really puzzles me is why you would use the Z2 without ZFX. Sure, ZFX isn't the cheapest product in the world but from all I can tell, it doesn't have any negative effects and speeds things up so much.

Finally, I am not sure I would finish with the Z8. Everybody who I have spoken to says that Z6 is almost as good but has far less chance of spoiling. Z8 can be a real pain.

Hope that helps.

ronmart

Thanks for adding your 2 cents!

I'm going to try to knock the ones I have right now out while polishing and I'm going to put the Z5 Pro on to fill in anything I might have missed. Many people have said that Z2 Pro will highlight any paint flaws so if your paint isn't perfect then you'll be showing the world what you missed after your done with Z2.

I've had 4 or 5 people recommend it to prep the paint before the first coat. Even Sal Zaino mentioned it to me.

Good to know - thanks!

I had one person suggest it that way since the last coat could sit overnight if I needed it to. I've had some others suggest, as you do, to just use ZFX and don't worry about it. I'll probably update my plans to incorporate that.

That's the first I've heard of that one. I know a few people who commented that they put it on too heavily and made a mess, but they all said if you put it on thin like you do Z2 then you'll be very happy with the results. I also heard that you aren't supposed to do more than one coat of Z8 per day, which his fine by me since the stuff a'int cheap.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply!

Bob in NY

I think your process is quite extensive. My experience has only been with Zaino products but it sounds like the combination you are planning sounds pretty complete. I use Z5 Pro on my black 997 and the results are excellent and I think with midnight it will be even better. The key as you mentioned is don't apply too much. Keep the coats thin, shake well and enjoy. I would love to see the pics of the completed project. Enjoy it and wear sunglasses to view the results!

ronmart

Good to know - thanks! I will try to post some before and after shots, although it looks pretty darn good right now so I'm not sure how much better the after shots will really look.

ronmart

Okay, I just spent 15 minutes talking to Sal Zaino about my plan below and he had a lot of interesting things to say (great guy). Based on that conversation, here's my final plan:

NOTE: I have a metallic midnight blue (almost black) Porsche 911 cabriolet (so no top to finish), so let me know if I need to use different products or combos.

1. I will wash my car as usual with with Griots Car Wash (although Sal likes his better ).

2. I'll clay as needed using Griots Clay as I like it more than Sonus & Zaino's. (I don't clay while washing because I have to wash in the sun and that will result in water spots)

3. I'll polish any defects out of the paint using Griots Machine Polish 3 (or 2 if there any bad spots).

4. I prepare the paint with a coat of Griots Paint Prep which helps to remove wax & sealants. Sal recommends washing again at this step, but he didn't seem very familiar with Paint Prep, so I don't believe re-washing is necessary.

5. I'll spray the car down with one coat of Z6 and wipe it off (in sections of course) using a blue Sonus MF towel.

6. I'll mix a HALF ounce of Z5 Pro with 2 drops of ZFX and apply a THIN layer to the whole car (as I would do with Klasse AIO & SG) using a Z6 moistend microfiber applicator (orange Sonus ones).

7. Based on Sal's comments, by the time I'm done applying to the whole car it should be ready to remove. I'll test it first, but it sounds a lot like the dry time of Klasse AIO (an on / off product).

8. I'll buff off the first coat in the garage and then repeat steps 5 & 6. I'll repeat step 7 afterwards. Sal says 2 coats of Z5 Pro is plenty. Anymore is just wasting the product.

9. I'll REPEAT step 5 (Z6), then I'll use straight Z2 Pro WITHOUT ZFX and apply a THIN layer to the whole car using a Z6 moistend microfiber applicator for one final coat. (NOTE: Sal says your final coat doesn't need ZFX. You can use it, but it isn't required NOR is a long cure time required - wipe on and wipe off is sufficent).

10. According to Sal, immediately after the last coat of Z2 Pro has been removed, I'll ]finish with a SINGLE coat of Z8 when I do a full car wipe down using a Sonus Blue MF towel.

Sal claims that steps 5 - 10 could be done in as little as 45 minutes with the best possible results that the product will offer. I don't think I move that fast, but I guess the real point is that all of these claims about long cure times don't offer any benefit (according to Sal).

If I have the engergy, I might prep my windows and wheels and do those in advance of the Sunday marathon.

Other interesting notes from my conversation with Sal:

• Sal claims that Werkerstat and Klasse products are made by the same supplier so they are the same product. Both are VOC compliant which he claims translates into Klasse AIO not being as good now as it used to be before it was VOC compliant. He's not a fan of Klasse, but I love the stuff personally.
• He stated clearly that you SHOULD NOT use Z8 moistened applicators, but rather use Z6. He made it sound like that it was a waste, but he was pretty clear that I shouldn't do that.
• He seemed to think there is no harm in putting some Z8 in with your Z5 or Z2. He doesn't feel like he can notice any benefit, but he said it doesn't hurt and if someone can see a benefit then sure go for it.
• He stated the main benefit of ZFX is to allow immediate curing. The reduced dry time is a side effect, but not the purpose of ZFX. He said that it is nonsense to think that using Z2 Pro or Z5 Pro with ZFX requires long cure times - it simply doesn't.
• Sal said there's no advantage to NOT using ZFX - he claims it is required if you are going to do multiple coats in the same day, but it isn't required on the last coat (but you can still use it if you like).
• If you screw up with any Zaino product (Z2, Z5, Z8, etc...) then you should simply get a wet towel and wipe it off. In the case of Z2 & Z5 with ZFX, you don't need to re-apply because the bottom layer would have bonded, so you are good to go for your next step.

If you have ANY questions about these claims, I encourage you to send mail to Sal (sal@zainobros.com) and then call him at 732-833-8800 to discuss it (he'll tell you to call him in e-mail).

SimonExtreme

All sound pretty good info. I am about to order some Z5 pro, which can be applied over the Z2 I have been using (it was out of stock when I bought my other stuff). Maybe I will try the last coat of Z2 without ZFX but for the sake of a few cents (or maybe a whole dollar!), maybe not!

ronmart

According to Sal Zaino, Z5 Pro should go on BEFORE Z2 Pro. Putting on Z5 Pro on top of Z2 Pro would be like putting Paint Sealant on a car you just finished Carnauba Waxing (even though the two products aren't that much different - Z2's just a final coat product).

You should remove the Z2 Pro, then do some Z5 Pro followed by Z2 Pro for the best results.

ronmart

Okay, I did it. After 17 hours worth of work, you can see my results here:

http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?p=769854

Did I mention, Zaino is a pain in the ***? It is good, but boy is it a pain!

SimonExtreme

I read your report on autopia and you have obviously been working hard. I am not signed up on that forum so sorry to answer you here.

I had always wondered why you wanted to use the Z5 pro as the swirls you would have on such a new car should be very minor. However, I stick by what I have said about Zaino and IMO, its the easiest product to use that I know of. Having read what you did, I think I know why you had a nightmare.

You stated "I then began the madness of mixing 3 ML of Z5 Pro with 2 drops of ZFX". I cannot understand why you tried mixing 3ml. The instructions for ZFX is to mix 1 to 2 ounces at a time. I think that is 30-60ml! The first time I did my 964RS it took 2 ounces. I now can do the whole car in one ounce although I think the secret is to load the applicator with Z6 and then the polish.

Anyway, one way or another you have got the results. However, they are probably no better than the best ther products out there, TODAY. Wait a few weeks, Then you begin to understand why we like Zaino. In 7 weeks I have added 1 coat (less than an hour) and that was "because I could"!! The car looks a million dollars. When washing, dirt just drops off and water beads well. Best of all, I actually think the UV protection works because I have had such problems with all the other products as my Guards Red car seems to oxidise just thinking about sunshine! We have just had the best summer months for years and there is no sign of UV distress!

SimonExtreme

Little bit to add! I have been reading some of the threads on autopia and it has left me gobsmacked. I cannot believe there are guys using so little. It really does make me wonder what is going on.

Firstly, as mentioned, I average 1 ounce for a 911. Maybe I could use less but using the amount I am, I don't have any streaking problems. I really struggle to understand how people use so little. However, I note that some add Z8 which suggests that in total, they are using less more material to achieve coverage.

Even if you can spread it thinner, do you get better results? I don't believe so. Is it a matter of cost? Maybe, but its not gold! Used even in the quantity I use it, the cost per year per vehicle isn't going to break the bank.

Zaino is gaining quite a cult following and quite rightly too. However, IMO, it seems there is a few who are also turning its application into somesort of macho challenge "just how little can I use".

Finally, I note you thought that Z2 was easier to use than Z5. IMO, there is little difference. The reason you thought there was is because you tried to do the job with too little Z5. The amounts you need to use are the same so if you got good results with the Z2 in the quantity you used, you would have been able to do the same with Z5.

Ronmart, IMO, if you had used more product you would have spent a few dollars more, had a hell of a lot less grief and still had as good a finish.

ronmart

I wish that were true, but sadly it wasn't. For starters the dealership did a quicky wash of my car when I took delivery and got lots of swirls on it. To make things better they let me take it to a detailer who charged $250 for an exterior detail. They ended up getting water spots all over the back deck and WAY more swirls than it had before (thanks to their dirty rotary polisher). They topped it off by putting Blue Coral sealant on it which made the paint lose some color depth giving it a milky appearance.

I've been wanting to do this for a while, but I've just been too busy / lazy. After the track event this week I decided to make it a priority before my parents visit at the end of the month and see the car for the first time.

I trusted someone else's math their (its on Autopia). If you are right, then that would make a HUGE difference.

I did use Z6 on the applicator. It would have been impossible without it.

By coat, you mean Z2 Pro, right? I presume without ZFX, right?

That's good to know. I'll probably try that in early September.

Yeah, I've noticed the paint feels really good. It is almost like it has a super clear version of clear bra over the entire car. I like that part, and I am counting on it to help make cleaning easier.

I own the stuff now so I'll use all of the product that I have. Who knows, by the time I'm done I could end up being a Zaino junkie too. I know I do like the results I got on the 911!

ronmart

Sal Zaino claims that 1/2 ounce is enough to do my whole car twice. He explained that only the product that makes contact with the paint is going to bond, so all of the rest is just waste. If that is the case then I managed to waste very little this weekend, and I did make sure I covered the entire car with each coat.

I asked Sal about this because I, like you, had some concerns about this. My big concern was that it would dilute the product and cause it to not be as effective, but Sal said it was fine. He wouldn't elaborate when I question him about dilution, so I took that to mean that he knows some reason why this is fine that he doesn't want to elaborate on.

That was sorta my point and it is why I liked the Z2 Pro better. i don't care about wasting some. I'd rather waste some and have a more enjoyable application experience than to be a miser and it be such a hassle.
Perhaps. I'll try some more next time and just see how it goes.
Agreed. This whole confusion about how much Z5 Pro to ZFX is what was such a PIA.

Let me ask you this, can you send a picture that shows where you fill your mixing bottle too and how much ZFX you put in it? I think that would go a LONG way in helping me to understand what people are really doing.
Ronmart, IMO, if you had used more product you would have spent a few dollars more, had a hell of a lot less grief and still had as good a finish.[/QUOTE]

SimonExtreme

I have been looking at some prices in the US (half of what we pay over here but I won't begrudge Rob that ) so I could make some informed comments.

As I said, I use 1 ounce each time. I fill a ZFX mixing bottle half full (that is an ounce) and add 4 or 5 drops of ZFX and shake like mad for a minute. I then get my applicators ready and line up my polishing cloths etc and its ready to go.

Now, with the amount of dilution, I cannot tell the difference between either products with or without ZFX .

While I agree with Sal when he says any that is applied that isn't in contact with the paint is a waste BUT, so long as you don't use so much as to cause streaking or other problems, so what if you apply it a little heavy. It is just so much easier as you discovered. I can assure you that of you had applied as much Z5 as you did Z2, you would have found it just as easy. I can assure you that if either were activated with ZFX, you would not have had a problem. I am convinced that your problems were totally caused by the attempt to match thin coats by others.

Just think for one moment. Sal applies this stuff all the time. I bet he has the application down off pat and he shoulod do! But I bet he didn't when he first made the products. It seems rather pointless to make it so hard just to be technically perfect and save a few dollars.

And talking about money, lets look at that. ZFX adds about $1 per ounce to the cost of either product. If you use 1 ounce of ZFX activated polish for a coat, the costs are

Z2 pro $1.87

Z5 pro $2.11

Now, based on that, the way I do things might add $2-4 for the whole job and when you consider the total spent on other products, SO WHAT! And in exchange for my $2-4, I got no heart ache, I enjoyed applying the stuff and got the same results

I top up with Z2 Pro with ZFX every now and again just because it is so easy and then there is little chance of losing all cover. For $2, once every 4-6 weeks and about 1 hour of work, it leaves me feeling very good about the car and how it looks.

I am never going to win a concours but since I have started using Zaino, the comments I have had from total strangers have increased 10 fold. So my advice to you is, slap it on, spend the extra $1, do it so much quicker and enjoy the results. Leave the rest to the pros who want to push their application skills to the limit. I hope they enjoy their $ savings

ronmart

Thanks for the reply and fundamentally my problem was that I didn't check someone's math when they told me I only needed 3 ml - that was nuts. A half of a mixing bottle makes WAY more sense and that would have made the experience MUCH more pleasurable. I don't care about saving money for this - if I cared about saving money i would have bought a M3 instead of 911!!!!!

Live and learn - at least I know now so that will make it much easier next time. Fortunately, despite my incorrect directions i got the results I wanted so it worked okay.