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Intech vs ATC aluminum trailer

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Old 01-08-2017, 02:06 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by jrbkarter View Post
Instead of load bars, or any permanent mounted rack, instead we went with a rolling vertical rack such as this:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben.../003639sch01a/

Which we then strap to the front wall, along with VP fuel jugs, to 4' sections of A track we've mounted vertically directly to the aluminum uprights of the trailer.
That is a great idea. After reading that link it has a limitation for 8.5" max wide wheels but yet shows a Porsche with wider wheels/tires. Not sure if they meant tire width or not. Guess I'll call them unless someone here has that and can post their experience.

EDIT:
Looks like Summit Racing shows similar and claims a total height of 42". Assuming that is from the ground up and not the tree height.

Last edited by ExMB; 01-08-2017 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 01-08-2017, 03:03 PM   #32
Martin S.
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Default Like the concept...

Run 10" wide rear wheels....if this can handle 10" wheels, great option. Roll them on, roll them off.
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Old 01-08-2017, 09:24 PM   #33
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Wow - lacks nothing would be a good way to describe the InTech described here. I've stayed in hotels that aren't as nice.
What will you store in the tongue cabinet?
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:44 AM   #34
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Great thread! Any input on v-nose vs square/flat fronts? Why aren't all trailers v-nose? Makes sense both in terms of aerodynamics (stability) and extra storage space, no? Or no big deal?

Why does insulation matter, if there's no a/c? Seems like unnecessary extra weight. Most Featherlite trailers I've seen had no insulation -- just the exterior aluminum panels.

That movable vertical wheel rack looks great. Though 8.5" max width seems too narrow. Not a problem for SPB.

I'm more in the "keep it as light and small as possible" camp even with a 2500hd Silverado so don't quite see how bigger and more tricked out (cabinets, insulation, kitchen sink,....) is always better. But I've never had an enclosed trailer, so what do I know.

Heard it a few times here that aluminum trailers are way better quality than the steel ones. What does this mean? Do the steel ones fall apart? My main reason to choose aluminum is better resistance to weather and no rust, plus lighter weight though the latter one seems debatable as some aluminum ones have been quoted at some hefty weights here, approaching or even over 4000lb.
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:16 AM   #35
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Great thread! Any input on v-nose vs square/flat fronts? Why aren't all trailers v-nose? Makes sense both in terms of aerodynamics (stability) and extra storage space, no?
.....
plus lighter weight though the latter one seems debatable as some aluminum ones have been quoted at some hefty weights here, approaching or even over 4000lb.
There seem to be 2 schools of thought on v-nose vs flat. The V may help a little bit depending on the size of the V (2', 4', or 6') as well as your tow vehicle but it still presents an increased side load (somebody posted this on here as read from a trailer manufacturer) which is probably your biggest stability challenge regarding winds.
Regarding extra storage there are also postings that says figure out what you want then add 4'.
Regarding your weight comment ... how much would the equivalent in steel weigh?
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Old 01-09-2017, 02:57 AM   #36
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In the buying experience, I wanted a V nose, extra space, and possibly some aero benefits, but it comes at a cost, increased weight over a flat nose. I had to keep the trailer as light as possible, so I had to pass on the added space (And of course it costs more).
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Old 01-09-2017, 08:52 AM   #37
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I've seen threads here reporting that aluminum frame enclosed trailers weigh the same as steel frame enclosed trailers. Apparently you need more aluminum frame pieces to make it rigid/sturdy enough. At worst, the weight savings, if any, seem to be very small. Plus, once tricked out with insulation and cabinets, large part of the total weight comes from pieces that weigh the same in both types of trailers. Would love to see some evidence/links of actual weight comparisons and large weight advantages for aluminum. Student here, not an expert.

In v-nose vs flat, I get that v-nose adds to the side profile of the trailer making it more sensitive to side winds and that it adds to tongue weight. Just seems that aero benefits from not flying a literal brick through air would be worth it.
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Old 01-09-2017, 09:03 AM   #38
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When I changed trailers from a v-nose (CargoPro 20' plus the v) to a Haulmark flat nose (24') I saw very little change in mpg and none in stability. And the Haulmark is probably 1300 lbs heavier.
Rennlist consensus seems to be that if you are towing with a brick it is punching a hole through the air and so the net frontal drag isn't all that different.
If I was towing with an SUV every little bit of weight and drag is a lot more meaningful than if towing with say a 3/4 ton diesel.
Hope this helps
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Old 01-09-2017, 10:02 AM   #39
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Rick, that makes sense. If the large truck is already punching the hole through the air, then it matters little whether the trailer is v-nose or flat. Starting to understand the logic behind flat front trailers better now.

Is your Haulmark alu frame or steel? How much does it weigh?

Another thing I've noticed is that 10000lb GVWR trailers weigh much more than 7000lb GVWR which makes me guess that the 10k axles and structural pieces add quite a bit to the weight regardless of alu or steel frame. They allow for larger payload weight though.
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Old 01-09-2017, 11:29 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hf1
Rick, that makes sense. If the large truck is already punching the hole through the air, then it matters little whether the trailer is v-nose or flat. Starting to understand the logic behind flat front trailers better now.

Is your Haulmark alu frame or steel? How much does it weigh?

Another thing I've noticed is that 10000lb GVWR trailers weigh much more than 7000lb GVWR which makes me guess that the 10k axles and structural pieces add quite a bit to the weight regardless of alu or steel frame. They allow for larger payload weight though.
Steel frame, everything else is aluminum.
I bought it from Scott L. I think he told me 3800 pounds empty, meaning including cabinets and tire rack, but not the car etc. (of course)., my F250 diesel doesn't care.
The CargoPro was a really nice trailer, all aluminum, 2500 lbs. empty maybe a bit less including cabinets.
The Haulmark is obviously bigger and heavier but when towing my truck is ambivalent to the difference.
I spec'd out a new ATC and InTech but they were so much more expensive that I couldn't justify the additional expense. Would rather spend it on coaching. They sure are nice, though.
I love me a good trailer thread.
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Old 01-09-2017, 04:29 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hf1 View Post
Great thread! Any input on v-nose vs square/flat fronts? Why aren't all trailers v-nose? Makes sense both in terms of aerodynamics (stability) and extra storage space, no? Or no big deal?

Why does insulation matter, if there's no a/c? Seems like unnecessary extra weight. Most Featherlite trailers I've seen had no insulation -- just the exterior aluminum panels.

That movable vertical wheel rack looks great. Though 8.5" max width seems too narrow. Not a problem for SPB.

I'm more in the "keep it as light and small as possible" camp even with a 2500hd Silverado so don't quite see how bigger and more tricked out (cabinets, insulation, kitchen sink,....) is always better. But I've never had an enclosed trailer, so what do I know.

Heard it a few times here that aluminum trailers are way better quality than the steel ones. What does this mean? Do the steel ones fall apart? My main reason to choose aluminum is better resistance to weather and no rust, plus lighter weight though the latter one seems debatable as some aluminum ones have been quoted at some hefty weights here, approaching or even over 4000lb.

I've never really been able to sort out the Pros/Cons of the V-nose so I'll leave that one alone. As for insulation- it really does only matter if you're planning to use AC/Heat and be in the trailer regularly. Although, even without having AC the insulation will keep the inside of the trailer cooler than a non-insulated trailer. Again, just boils down to your own personal use and plans with the trailer. In the TX heat, and especially at COTA where you're down in a bowl, there's very little wind flow and a LOT of sun so staying cool is the priority. Sitting/standing outside even in the shade of a tent or awning is miserable so being inside as cool of a trailer as possible is important.

For reference, we average burning through a 10lb bag of ice per car/19qt cool shirt cooler, every 2-25 minute sessions during your average DE day at COTA. Ambient air temps in the mid 80s-mid 90s, track temps 10-15 degrees higher than that. We've had few days where air temps creep higher and we'll burn through an entire bag of ice each session. Being able to come back, immediately get out of the car and get into a cool trailer is worth the expense/weight.

As for weight comparisons- if you compare a completely unfinished trailers (wood floor, lauan walls, no cabinets, etc) the weight difference between a 20'/24' is fairly minimal. You're about 2200lbs-2500lbs for the aluminum and about 2800-3200lbs for the steel. However, that discrepancy widens rapidly as you begin to outfit the trailers and go up size. The gap can widen to several thousand pounds when you're talking 28' to 32' fully furnished/outfitted trailers.

Outside of the weight consideration though is we've also had several steel enclosed trailers, both used and brand new, all from name brands, and the fit and finish is significantly below the top tier aluminum manufacturers. From a distance everything looks the same but up close you can really pick out the quality and craftsmanship differences. Rivets sticking out, non full length hinges on doors, lower quality fasteners/latches, questionable welds, etc etc. It's nitpicking for sure but when you start spending $20k plus on a trailer, those kinds of variables factor into the purchase a bunch. If you're just looking for a functional trailer that will serve you well for a few years for local events, then your average $5-10k steel trailer will be fine. However, we like to and plan to travel to both the Florida tracks and California tracks and higher quality trailers will reduce the chances of an issue, much the same as a more capable tow vehicle does.
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Old 01-10-2017, 02:13 PM   #42
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Quote:
I've seen threads here reporting that aluminum frame enclosed trailers weigh the same as steel frame enclosed trailers.
I can't speak to all the different brands, but for an ATC the difference in weight is around 1500 lbs Aluminum less than Steel.

If you go to ATC's website and click on a particular model (I picked the Quest CH305), then pick a size (I picked 28' with 5.2K axles), then click "specifications", the estimated curb weight will be listed at the bottom.
The bigger the trailer, the bigger the difference.
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Old 01-10-2017, 02:53 PM   #43
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I can't speak to all the different brands, but for an ATC the difference in weight is around 1500 lbs Aluminum less than Steel.

If you go to ATC's website and click on a particular model (I picked the Quest CH305), then pick a size (I picked 28' with 5.2K axles), then click "specifications", the estimated curb weight will be listed at the bottom.
The bigger the trailer, the bigger the difference.
Here's a guy selling an almost new 24' ATC Raven:

http://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-m...m-trailer.html

In that thread he claims it weighs about 4000lbs. ATC website estimates the 24' Raven at 2800lb and Raven Plus (with extra cabinets as optioned in the seller's trailer) at 3100lb. Seems their estimates may be about 1000lb off.

The ATC estimate for a 24' CH305 (with more frame components and cabinets vs the Raven) is 3400lb -- that's 600lb less than the weight measured by the ATC Raven seller. Something's off.

Out of interest, have you put your CH305 on weight scales and compared the number with their estimate?
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:49 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by hf1 View Post
Here's a guy selling an almost new 24' ATC Raven:

http://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-m...m-trailer.html

In that thread he claims it weighs about 4000lbs. ATC website estimates the 24' Raven at 2800lb and Raven Plus (with extra cabinets as optioned in the seller's trailer) at 3100lb. Seems their estimates may be about 1000lb off.

The ATC estimate for a 24' CH305 (with more frame components and cabinets vs the Raven) is 3400lb -- that's 600lb less than the weight measured by the ATC Raven seller. Something's off.

Out of interest, have you put your CH305 on weight scales and compared the number with their estimate?
Why does the manufacturer's spec have to be off, that far out of tolerance? Reading through the seller's ad he just stated a right around weight and didn't state thats the actual scale weight. Could he have been guessing?
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Old 01-10-2017, 04:23 PM   #45
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Why does the manufacturer's spec have to be off, that far out of tolerance? Reading through the seller's ad he just stated a right around weight and didn't state thats the actual scale weight. Could he have been guessing?
Yes, not sure but why would a seller OVER-state the weight of his trailer? I've also heard it elsewhere that tricked out aluminum 24' trailers (with insulation, cabinets, beefier axles, etc.) weigh around 4000lb. Equivalent steel maybe few hundred lb more, if that. This is all anecdotal so would love to see and compare some actual scale weight numbers.
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