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I kinda don't trust Elon to do it fair and square.
Fair and square? Do we know for sure Porsche was fair and square? Bugatti just set the first 300mph on their test track and guess what, the car wasnt a production car. They X-rayed the tires to make sure there were no imperfections. they changed all kinds of **** in that car to make that record. no one cares about fair. Run what you brung.
Fair and square? Do we know for sure Porsche was fair and square? Bugatti just set the first 300mph on their test track and guess what, the car wasnt a production car. They X-rayed the tires to make sure there were no imperfections. they changed all kinds of **** in that car to make that record. no one cares about fair. Run what you brung.
So far Porsche has been an example of fair and square, actually. One thing with Porsche is that you can take one from the showroom and repeat almost every drag or lap time they showed in publicity stunts. Yes, they are using the highest performance configurations sometimes (e.g. Cup R tires on the new RS) but at least they are transparent about it, unlike many other manufacturers running times that no one can ever replicate in real life and refusing to comment on the brand of tires they used or if any components were modified.
This.....well....I’m interested in seeing how close Tesla can get. I’m not predicting it will go very well but you never know what Elon has up his sleeve.
Questions. So many questions. Who will drive? Will it be a full private session?
Hmm. Misha Charoudin of Apex Nurburgring fame posted these pics yesterday. Didn’t think much of them but could the game be afoot? I know of no good reason to run a Model S on Sport Cup 2’s. But what’s with the janky Gurney flap?
well given that Porsche is claiming the Taycan is "better" based on "performance" - cause they've got nothing in the efficiency or price department - it would seem reasonable to establish how good/bad the Model S actually is at the ring…as far as I'm concerned not enough pop-corn in the world for this little play…wow - competition is awesome - both cars will get better!!! Come on Porsche!!! Come On Tesla!!!
remember when no one cared what an EV could do - now we're arguing over how good/bad they are...this is what's needed to push this automotive segment forward.
Not sure I understand the fascination with 'Ring times for an EV sedan.
Do people really choose a Panamera over an S-Class (or vice versa) because the Panamera is faster around the Nurburgring than the Merc?
#ShakesHead
No, it’s honestly stupid. I said in another thread that of the three records Porsche published: the # of 0-200 starts, the total KM covered in 24 hours and the ‘Ring time, that the ‘Ring time, while impressive, was the least important to an EV sedan. Of course I got laughed at a bit by someone who thinks they know about “performance” but ICE and EV live in two different realms. Those who are in the EV know understand which are the harder achievements to achieve.
But its it’s still fun. And the Taycan is a hell of an impressive performer.
No, it’s honestly stupid. I said in another thread that of the three records Porsche published: the # of 0-200 starts, the total KM covered in 24 hours and the ‘Ring time, that the ‘Ring time, while impressive, was the least important to an EV sedan. Of course I got laughed at a bit by someone who thinks they know about “performance” but ICE and EV live in two different realms. Those who are in the EV know understand which are the harder achievements to achieve.
But its it’s still fun. And the Taycan is a hell of an impressive performer.
For me it's not even an ICE v. EV thing.
Whether ICE, EV or hybrid, if I'm buying a luxury sedan (which is what both the Taycan and Model S or 3 are), I'd care more about ride comfort, handling, and general driving dynamics in day-to-day duties. Not at full break neck speed around some track.
It's like if I buy a Patek 5078G. Yes, it's interesting and noteworthy that the watch might be water resistant to X meters, but what I really care about is that it chimes every minute on the minute.
...if I'm buying a luxury sedan (which is what both the Taycan and Model S or 3 are)
Wait... As in "I'm rich and I want to drive in a luxury vehicle, but I cannot decide between a 50 K Model 3 and a 150 K Taycan because they obviously offer the same level of luxury, so I'm going to decide based on range" ?
There's "luxury" and "luxury". I daily drive a Panamera and for the life of me couldn't understand what happened when I went recently, in good faith (wife was in the market for a new car), to try the three Tesla models. The Tesla feel so cheap: everything feels cheap. From opening the door to sitting in to touching the various materials. It is simply terribly bad. Painful even. We instead went with a fourth german car at home.
They're all are "luxury" the same way a compact "luxury" model 3 and an ultra-luxury Rolls-Royce Wraith share the word "luxury".
Just as there are "leather seats" and "leather seats", there are a great many level of luxury and I'm not sure those ordering the Taycan consider Tesla to be a luxury brand.
No, it’s honestly stupid. I said in another thread that of the three records Porsche published: the # of 0-200 starts, the total KM covered in 24 hours and the ‘Ring time, that the ‘Ring time, while impressive, was the least important to an EV sedan. Of course I got laughed at a bit by someone who thinks they know about “performance” but ICE and EV live in two different realms. Those who are in the EV know understand which are the harder achievements to achieve.
But its it’s still fun. And the Taycan is a hell of an impressive performer.
Why is it stupid? - Porsche make performance cars, in fact its what they are renowned for and its up to Tesla to step up to the plate or not as the case may be.
Moreover, Porsche has motorsport hard wired into its history and as a consequence Porsche said the Taycan would have performance in its fabric - hence a ring time - something that gives one a perspective on its capabilities as a performance vehicle.
Furthermore there are plenty of Porsche owners that do understand performance (there are plenty of people on here that have raced everything from Carrera Cup through to national level tarmac rallies) and expect the Taycan to have some of the characteristics that define performance - which it clearly does. Tesla owners continuously bleat on about performance (in the high school sense of the world e.g. 0-60), so why not take the challenge.
ICE and EV don't live in two different realms, they occupy the same roads and serve the same purpose. Likewise EVs have to compete in the real world and be judged in that world.
Performance and competition are not something to shy away from they are something to embrace.
Good to see EV owners know and understand .......must be that special legacy 400V system
Having spent some time in a Model X and also time in a new XC90, I can say that Tesla does NOT do luxury well. Areas you need to touch without seeing (rear seat adjusters) on the Model X were done in literally the worst plastics I have ever felt in a modern car. Other components lack basic fit and finish of a mid priced sedan, let alone a $100K+ vehicle. Ergonomics and ease of use are similarly a joke.
So I fully expect the Taycan to demolish Tesla (all its offerings) in both design and quality. I would never purchase a current Tesla for the lack of quality and refinement per dollar spent vs other options out there. Also, there is a huge difference between “party trick” one shot performance like a model S in ludicrous mode, and repeatable performance. Similar to how I would not compare a 911 turbo quarter mile to some other car that is using a large shot of nitrous to boost hp for a few seconds...
All that said, I still find the Taycan disappointing on technical specs alone and the Tesla lineup more impressive on specs vs price. Ultimately it means that for a luxury option, neither are compelling (Tesla due to absurdly poor quality and interior design / useability, Porsche due to other more interesting non EV options).
09-05-2019, 09:05 PM
