BostonDMD

I'm only 20 lbs less than you (I'm sure I am also a foot shorter) so is all your extra weight coming from the cage?

trygve

I'd guess most are but a significant number aren't. (e.g. in our group Scott has weight bolted in, Doug runs 1/4 tank gas for weight, etc. but Andrew is over, I'm over, evidently you're over, ...)

I know it's the car in your case because you ain't fat. I'm in the same boat but it sounds like my car is a bit lighter than yours. I'm about 2670lbs on typical scales, before adding cool suit gear. So I'd like to drop 40-50lbs from the car.

(I'm not in favor of changing the minimum weight.)

I didn't know you weighed that much (200) but you are a bit taller. (I'm 160 w/o gear.) With the heavier cage and equipment it adds up.

gums

The weight limit is realistic, as it's just out of reach for many of us and as lightweight bodywork is not allowed, the cost is balanced. I had to add bondo to my car which really put it out there, so I went after the low hanging fruit; trimmed 35lbs from the driver! Still 100 over.

sbelles

I used to have to leave some gas in to make weight and I've lost 35 lbs since then. Not sure where the additional weight came from. The only thing I've added is a radio and it's not that heavy.

mmuller

I would also add that I am not sure weight is a big factor in car performance. When I set the WGI record, the car was 100lbs over weight. I have done some stuff to get it to 70lbs over weight, but I don't have a lot of drive to find more as it doesn't seem to slow down the car. I to have a burly cage in the car. I don't run a coolsuit and have no desire to.

I just don't get the wheel thing. It will only add cost. I have 6 sets of wheels that will instantly become worth nothing if that rule is past. Then I have to go buy another 6 sets. That might just be enough for me to find a different class to race in because I would rather spend that money on finishing my other race car than replacing wheels

LSD will only make the cars less reliable. LSD will induce more heat into an already fragile transmission, but it won't improve the racing. So I don't get that either. It might help with cars spinning off track and into walls, but I would say a change in driving technique could have the same effect.

The current rain tire works because it's a) from the series sponsor and b) we are all on the same tire, so all have the same challenge. I have driven on the rain tire many times in the rain. There is nothing wrong with it, once again, change in technique is the biggest factor here.

toddlamb

We were 2660 at WGI on PCA scales, with all the coolers/accusump etc you are allowed to add plus 1 gal fuel. 210# driver. Matched exactly what our scales said when we were doing setup all weekend at the track.

Also we have a lightened wiring harness and lexan windows. These don't pass the cost control or better competition criteria but that ship has sailed.

We design our own cages so we can control cage weight, which is where I think a lot of our weight savings came from.

mmuller

I was 2710 at WGI with all coolers and accusump allowed and finished in the reserve on the fuel tank. 210# driver also. My car has gutted wiring but no lexan (hate lexan windows). Gutting the wiring harness costs nothing (except time), Lexan costs some.

The cage is a balance between weight and adding strength and safety to the car. I didn't design my cage (it was purchased as a built SPB), but glad it was designed for maximum stiffness.

toddlamb

Cage weight, stiffness and safety are not directly proportional.

Wiring harness redux is not something the average garage builder has the knowledge or desire to do. The pain factor relative to saving +/-20lbs isn't something that should be required to build a car that meets weight. Granted as a shop we're happy to do it and charge lots of money for the time it takes, but is driving up the cost of a car to save weight good for a spec class?

Which reminds me, one of the other topics was battery weight.

toddlamb

UPDATED LIST:

• increase min weight
• aftermarket wheels
• topless
• rear wheel spacers
• springs, square setup
• different rain tire
• add LSD
• battery weight

Some criteria that can and should be used when considering any changes:

1. does it control costs?
2. does it improve the closeness of competition?
3. does it improve safety?

mmuller

I did the harness in my garage by myself with nothing more than a printout of the Porsche wiring diagram. I think its totally achievable if you have a working knowledge of electrics and how to read wiring diagrams. The key is to realize it take more than a day to complete it

Battery weight is already set to a minimum of 10lbs per the rules. Seems pretty reasonable to me and batteries that are lighter than that are both very expensive and very sensitive to be charged frequently. Don't see how that helps cost

toddlamb

Matt - What I'm getting at is the wiring harness isn't something most would feel comfortable doing. You are the exception, not the rule. Most just want to get in and drive. And I agree on the battery issue.

Everyone - For these proposals it helps to start with the mindset of "is this good for the class?" as opposed to "is this good for me (or my business)?" If the class thrives and car counts grow, we all benefit. If it turns into a spending war, we all lose.

mmuller

This I agree with 100%, which is part of the reason I oppose many of the discussed changes here. For many years (7+) the class has not grown on the east coast very much at all, and in the last 3 years it has better than doubled in size. When I did my first year in SPB we had 8 cars at LRP and 12 at WGI. This year we had 26 at LRP and 29 at WGI with many coming from new cars. My concern is that by adjusting rules even more (when the class has been very static in rule changes for quite a few years) we slow the growth, not improve it.

I would rather see drivers spending money on more coaching or driver development than cars. To me, driver skill is the biggest influencer in SPB and helping other to develop that skill is what I personally focus on.

Gary R.

I vote yes to topless with a roof net and arm restraints, no to everything else... and my car weighs 2735 with my (12qt) cool suit full and 1/2 tank.

Gary R.

Actually there were 17 SPB at LRP in 2016 (which is still huge!), and I agree that there is little if anything that will make it more fun or safer listed there.

mmuller

My bad. I guess I was remembering what the signup was, which then dropped off as we got closer to the race. Still a good improvement from where it was when I started.